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Post by lincolnburrows on Feb 5, 2015 13:21:51 GMT -6
With the discussion of playoffs beginning to heat up I thought we could have a brainstorming session on the pros and cons of the Western Canada Cup vs the Anavet Cup Series.
This year the WCC is hosted in Fort McMurray, Alberta. Two teams will then advance to the RBC Cup in Portage.
I know in a couple of the rinks ive been in fans have been grumbling that if their team wins the Canalta Cup, thats it for them (as fans) unless they pony up the money and head our to Fort Mac and then Portage.
Before fans would get to see a 7 game series with the best in Manitoba and it meant 3 - 4 more home games in their community which in turn is more revenue and excitement for the clubs.
Now it seems sort of anti-climactic... Like Yayyyy we won the SJHL, then we pack up and play they best hockey against the best teams in a rink 15 - 20 hours away!!!
Obviously the WCC was designed as a money maker but looking at the reports out of Dauphin last year, it wasn't the case at all. After a couple of WCC's (Nanaimo & Dauphin) what do you think? Was the Anavet Cup better? What would you rather see?
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Post by bomber2491 on Feb 5, 2015 13:57:13 GMT -6
Anavet Cup for me!
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Post by netyme on Feb 5, 2015 14:17:12 GMT -6
Anavet Cup all the way for me, if this stupid tournament can't make money, why in the hell do it? I guess we want the best to represent western canada and the AJ and BC really think that they are the ones to do it. BUT LOOK WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR! SJ and MJ both went! Why not give the revenue to the teams, give the fans what they want, and keep a long tradition going!?
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Post by swkot on Feb 5, 2015 16:41:59 GMT -6
As far as I'm concerned the WCC needs to go the way of the dinosaur. When 2 financially healthy teams (Melville and Yorkton) have to pull their bid due to financial risk, who exactly does that leave in the SJHL or even MJHL for that matter that is going to want to host the thing going forward? I watched some of the WCC last year. Good hockey but certainly didn't have the intensity of the anavet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 17:32:50 GMT -6
I agree with you on going back to the Anavet cup But how far can the point be taken. Why is a tourny after the Anavet accepted. Why not a BC/ALTA vs Anavet cup winner Play 2 games then 3 on the road and 2 at home if neccessary. Then the winner plays the east in a best of 7 - Simialr to the NHL. I know plane tickets will cost a lot but some other year the canalta champ would by tickets to fly to Vernon for the WCC then to PEI for the RBC plus hotels. food etc so would it cost more to fly to Vernon to play 3 games then win fly to PEI for 3 games. May have to fly twice to one spot. Might be cheaper and you get up to 8 extra games at home.
Just thinking that if the best of 7 is best for MJ/SJ then why isn't it also better for the next 2 stages.
Then the home rink gets several sold out games. Hosting a team from PEI only comes once in a lifetime. The team playing gets the money, the volunteers working get the joy of watching their team and only the teams that are winning will be involved, instead of dead beat host clubs who are only their cause their volunteers work harder off the ice than the players do on the ice.
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Post by pureel on Feb 5, 2015 18:58:31 GMT -6
My take on it is the Anavet Cup was way better but hey what do we know we are just the fans that keep this league going. It was only common sense to keep the Anavet but since those two words are really lacking in today's world. I can't see it changing any time soon
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 22:14:40 GMT -6
Anavet all the way for me. I dislike this who WCC idea big time. I want to see my team win the SJHL and then play Manitoba again and see both teams make some cash. You get the fans all fired up and then disappear.
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Feb 6, 2015 7:55:12 GMT -6
The direction and concept of the WCC is fundamentally flawed. The reality is the league is suffering lower attendance and is not currently in growth mode, clubs are scrutinizing income and expenses to sustainable business levels. The WCC seems more of an attempt to add another beaurocratic layer in an effort to push jr a hockey to a higher level. I don't s agree with this philosophy at this time. i would far rather strengthen hockey ties within regional areas, like mb/sk, offer a championship for these two leagues, battled out between centres u can drive in a half day or so. Local rivilaries, lots of local kids, fan interest, Friday nites under the lights.....less expensive...more fun. Same with bchl and ajhl
L4D
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Post by stupendousman on Feb 6, 2015 20:33:06 GMT -6
I agree with you on going back to the Anavet cup But how far can the point be taken. Why is a tourny after the Anavet accepted. Why not a BC/ALTA vs Anavet cup winner Play 2 games then 3 on the road and 2 at home if neccessary. Then the winner plays the east in a best of 7 - Simialr to the NHL. I know plane tickets will cost a lot but some other year the canalta champ would by tickets to fly to Vernon for the WCC then to PEI for the RBC plus hotels. food etc so would it cost more to fly to Vernon to play 3 games then win fly to PEI for 3 games. May have to fly twice to one spot. Might be cheaper and you get up to 8 extra games at home. Just thinking that if the best of 7 is best for MJ/SJ then why isn't it also better for the next 2 stages. Then the home rink gets several sold out games. Hosting a team from PEI only comes once in a lifetime. The team playing gets the money, the volunteers working get the joy of watching their team and only the teams that are winning will be involved, instead of dead beat host clubs who are only their cause their volunteers work harder off the ice than the players do on the ice. I really like this idea -- if only to eliminate the concept of a host team and the inherent recruiting advantage that comes with it. I realize these host clubs often don't win these tournaments, but they sure affect the competitive balance within their own leagues. That was as my main gripe when the WCC was created . . . . that there was now a national host and a regional host. |
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Post by ff39 on Feb 6, 2015 22:49:31 GMT -6
First off and before I forget, what happens if Portage wins the MJ this year and then places at the WCC? In the event this was to happen, does the MJ runner up sit around and wait for a couple weeks to see if Portage brings them in or does the 3rd place team in the tournament also earn a spot in the RBC - essentially bringing 3 of the same teams to the RBC from the WCC obviously - making it a complete waste of time.
On the Anavet, I definitely miss the days travelling from the Flon to OCN to cheer on the SJ rep as a teenager. It was a god d**n madhouse and created some unforgettable memories. I would also love to see a SJ/MJ Rep play a 7 game series against the BC/AJ Rep and then carry on to play the Eastern rep or just go back to the old format where the regions decided their rep and let them go for it. I do, though, understand to a degree why the AJ and BC wanted to form the WCC. Although I'm SJ through and through, there were several years in the Saints, Kodiaks, Vipers, V's etc eras where both teams from their respective leagues could have lost their regional championship series and very well came back to win the RBC a week later but it is tough to please everyone! |
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Post by oilersrock28 on Mar 1, 2015 13:29:26 GMT -6
Loved anavet cup the wcc is an awful poorly thought out idea. Now when the sj champ is crowned hockey is over in community but the team now can play up to another month all away from home!! How does that repay fan loyalty? How does that improve season ticket sales when fans can't watch their team after buying tickets and merchandise all year unless they can take off work and travel across the west. Less revenue for home teams 3 or 4 sell outs less for teams. I'd guess one anavet cup game equals about 3 regular season games for revenue. SK and man. Should bow out of WCC and go back to old format. If BC and Alta. , who my understanding is it was their idea because they felt that region was being cheated but so far that's not the case. The pacific can have a 3 team tourney if they want with the host. Thoughts?
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Post by oilersrock28 on Mar 2, 2015 13:19:12 GMT -6
Let's all send these valid concerns to all league governors and/or bill chow. Better yet a petition from fans/season ticket holders of all 4 leagues. Even a Facebook page where people can "like"
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Post by ipeecoy on Mar 2, 2015 17:54:45 GMT -6
"You know" Bill Chow don't give a "you know" rat's ass about what the "you know" few fans on this "you know" board think "you know."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 21:38:41 GMT -6
not sure Chow cares what the govenors like either, or the coaches, or the majority.
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Mar 8, 2015 12:58:45 GMT -6
the bombers final home game was march 4th, their next game is the 17th. my point is ....how is waiting two weeks helping any of the clubs in terms of saving/spending while waiting for their series to start. In the case of the bombers.....and 5 other teams ....the bills rack up while (ice time, billets, etc) with no revenue. Because...well because apparently everbody must benefit from 4 more teams in the playoffs. how do franchises benefit in this format? Bit of a mystery to me.....maybe a luxury we can no longer afford. If a team is already in the red, and you have go deeper into debt waiting for the survivor series to end...how does that make sense..God help ya if you keep winning, cause your also gonna be kept waiting....and paying. I get it now.....finally....All playoffs have to be streamlined to recognize the financial realities of the situation. This includes WCC and RBC. Someone should tell Bill we are not in growth mode....we are in survivor mode.....IMO
l4d
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 21:33:48 GMT -6
Crowe interviewed the Melfort Govenor and asked him directly what the deal was on leagues paying the bills for teams going to the WCC and RBC.
ALL expenses for the WCC are paid by the league . He also mentioned an extra $10,000 for expenses - It wasn't clear what for but I got the impression it was billets dues etc on the home front. So you can't loos money going to the WCC unless you let your boys spend to much time in an arcade
ALL RBC expenses are also paid.
I'm just repeating what the guy said so why does a team say they lost money going to the WCC or RBC?
Maybe to hide losses from the year to make themselves look better than they are. I think its called creative book keeping.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 0:34:45 GMT -6
Good point but that doesn't mean lost revenue pardon my math because Im not the brightest but pretend te Anevet still existed and per say Melfort wins the league.... They have home ice and it goes 7 games.... That's 4 games x 2000 people x around $12 a ticket = that equals $96,000 of ticket revenue then there is 50/50's, beer sales little bit of program sales etc. obviously there is loss with travel and hotels but they might only have to go there once anyway with the 2-3-2 format.... In my mind that tournament is just hurting our local clubs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 8:48:55 GMT -6
I see the lost revenue part. i haven't paid so close attention to remember if teams are saying they lose money or lose revenue. But in and of itself you don't need to make any money if someone else pays all the expenses. Perhaps you lose money in the year, most do but to say it was becasue the WCC or RBC would be passing tyhe buck from your shoulders to the league or CJHL.
I think to say we lost money BECAUSE we went the distance would be untrue.
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