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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 25, 2015 18:01:52 GMT -6
Take away the Klippers if they don't make the final and we might have a "fresh" SJHL Champ.
Only 4 teams have won in the past 13 years.
2002 Kindersley Klippers
2003 Humboldt Broncos
2004 Kindersley Klippers
2005 Yorkton Terriers
2006 Yorkton Terriers
2007 Humboldt Broncos
2008 Humboldt Broncos
2009 Humboldt Broncos
2010 La Ronge Ice Wolves
2011 La Ronge Ice Wolves
2012 Humboldt Broncos
2013 Yorkton Terriers
2014 Yorkton Terriers
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Post by netyme on Mar 25, 2015 18:10:25 GMT -6
Regardless who wins, its going to be nice not seeing humboldt or yorkton with a banner.
Hey, maybe thats why attendance is down!!!
Fans are sick of their team losing year after year..... Like 20 years!
Fans are also sick of their team winning.. because after you have 8 or 10 championships who cares, right??
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Mar 28, 2015 9:08:18 GMT -6
The above post makes a lot of sense....the league has been dominated by a few teams. Good coaches would be one of the reasons....but Brockman and Beatty are gone, leaving room for new blood at the top. Every other coach should be fired for immense mediocrity.... Because some would have us believe Brockman, Beatty and Cassan really aren't that good, it's just every other coach sucks. I do not adhere to that theory. I think those coaches are exceptional....not that the others are that bad.
L4D
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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 28, 2015 17:08:33 GMT -6
Beatty, Brockman and more recently Cassan have left a fairly dominant history in the past little while with the SJ. I think your right L4D
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Post by stars123 on Mar 28, 2015 17:48:56 GMT -6
Beatty is sure having lots of success with Cowichan...2 years as coach 2 last place finishes... Good coaches make the playoffs every year... They may not win it all, but good coaches have competitive teams...
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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 28, 2015 17:51:37 GMT -6
OH, I didn't know we were talking about the BC league......
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Post by stupendousman on Mar 29, 2015 0:04:06 GMT -6
Beatty is sure having lots of success with Cowichan...2 years as coach 2 last place finishes... Good coaches make the playoffs every year... They may not win it all, but good coaches have competitive teams... So using your criteria for being a "good coach", both Cassan AND Beatty don't qualify -- but Hasselberg makes the grade. He never wins it all (even an appearance in the semi-finals is rare territory for the North Stars in recent years), but that's OK, because in order to be a "good coach", you never have to win it all -- you just have to make the playoffs every year. Using Hasselberg as the standard, "good" coaches can see their teams outscored 22 to 4 in a playoff series (to their arch-rivals, no less). "Good" coaches can see their teams extended to five games in the wildcard series vs. the third-worst team in the league -- even though it means they have to start the next round the following night if they win. "Good" coaches can watch their team get beat 9-0 in a series opener, but they can still keep their reputation as a "good coach" intact because the team's fans know injuries are an excuse for losing, not adversity to rise above. And, of course, winning league and national titles is completely optional for the "good coach". The main thing is he makes sure his group is among the top 10 clubs in a 12-team league year after year. This isn't about Hasselberg. I think he's done a good job in the Battlefords. I'm sure he appreciates your support, but I'm willing to bet even he would cringe at seeing your post. |
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Mar 29, 2015 3:31:46 GMT -6
goood one stars123.....you must be a Reagan fan ...?
L4D
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Post by stars123 on Mar 29, 2015 6:45:56 GMT -6
All I am saying is to me it shouldn't matter where a coach coaches... Don't get me wrong.. Beatty did a tremendous job in Laronge.. No doubt about it.. But in my opinion he should be able to go to another league and have that same success... thats all I am saying..
How would Melfort do if they lost there top 4 players for an entire playoff series?? If kindersley wins the league this year does that make Rocky Zinger an exceptional coach??
You have to remember Battlefords only returned 7 players from the previous year.. At the beginning of the season they weren't even suppose to make the playoffs.. They made the playoffs and won a playoff round with 4 top players out of the lineup.. And were able to get 3 players to commit to div1 schools (more than all the other teams combined) .. That's a pretty good season isn't it? How many players did yorkton lose from a national championship team?? Should it not be easier for them to recruit top end kids having come off a national championship? I could be wrong but didn't they return all but 3 forwards? And they had 2 goalies that won championships??? Wasn't Yorkton expected to go for a 3 peat this year?
is a successful junior coach measured on the amount of championships he's won?? Or is he measured by how many kids from his program are moving onto the next level year after year?? I think in junior hockey winning is secondary to moving kids on..
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Mar 29, 2015 8:37:48 GMT -6
Beatty did guide the Broncos to the RBC as well.....u have him on a very short leash in BC....why....two years and no champeeeeenship.............., sounds silly when u say it out loud.
L4D
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Post by stars123 on Mar 29, 2015 8:47:14 GMT -6
Beatty did guide the Broncos to the RBC as well.....u have him on a very short leash in BC....why....two years and no champeeeeenship.............., sounds silly when u say it out loud. L4D And only 1 NCAA div1 scholarship out of his bchl program.... No playoffs(last place) and 1 div1 scholarship out of a league that is very easy to get scholarships.. I do have him on a short leash.. My expectations of a great coach would be more.. Notredames coach (who should of been coach of the year) has been in the league for 1 year.... He's already won a playoff round,up 2-0 on Kindersley and has a player with a div1 scholarship in his first year... Beatty is an old school coach.. The "new" CJAHL does not fit his style.. I agree tho 100% that in the old style there was no one better than Beatty... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 10:23:22 GMT -6
There are many ways to measure success. Champeeeenship would only be one.
I agree there is success in seeing kids get cheap school and who knows what from there.
There is also success in seeing fans entertained by kids who are maturing into men.
keeping a team on the ice for 50 yrs maybe and being an asset to your town instead of a burden.
Could also be a bank account.
I wonder if many boards have goals to evaluate success on to know if they are successful.
A couple yrs ago the Hawks had a goal of getting out of debt, They did so they are successful!
Fans may have different goals than the club so using a personal standard of success might not mean much.
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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 29, 2015 10:30:21 GMT -6
Yeah, but winning is everything in competitive sport, and you can't convince me otherwise
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Post by stars123 on Mar 29, 2015 11:49:49 GMT -6
Yeah, but winning is everything in competitive sport, and you can't convince me otherwise So you rather win a Championship and end up playing beer league than play NCAA div1. Hockey? junior hockey is a developmental league and I thought the whole idea was to develop players? Winning a championship is a bonus only 1 team can win.. |
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Mar 29, 2015 11:53:53 GMT -6
i suppose Cassan has one more year to get his act together....!
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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 29, 2015 12:04:29 GMT -6
Winning as a franchise, not as an individual. A franchise/club is measured on wins, the same as a coach. No coach or franchise is looked upon well for doing just "so-so" for 20 + years.
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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 29, 2015 12:11:43 GMT -6
For anyone that thinks winning isn't everything in COMPETETIVE sport, here's your participation ribbon, I hope your mommy holds your hand while you walk up to the podium for your award.  |
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Post by stupendousman on Mar 29, 2015 16:09:48 GMT -6
is a successful junior coach measured on the amount of championships he's won?? Or is he measured by how many kids from his program are moving onto the next level year after year?? I think in junior hockey winning is secondary to moving kids on.. You can't make a quote like this up. So if this is true in the Battlefords, are the rest of the North Stars' fans aware that the franchise isn't actually trying to win as much as secure scholarships? I can just envision what you'd be saying if your team had somehow won the national title this year: "Yeah, this is great -- but my RBC came when we got those three Div I schollies." I anticipated you using injuries as an excuse for not winning -- but I have to admit I was blindsided by the scholarship argument. |
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Post by hockeygawd on Mar 29, 2015 17:08:06 GMT -6
Stars 123. Do you not think the two go hand in hand? Winning and Scholorships that is. Honestly the farther teams go, the better and more competitive the games get and the better judge it is for scouts. I know I've seen more schools at Melfort playoff games and there's been more scouts registered then almost the whole season. I'd expect 3-4 players to comitt once Melforts season is complete.
I hope your team reads this actually, its almost as lame as Thoma telling everyone his team wouldn't win on radio. So the Star's coach walks into the room and says "Don't worry about that 8-0 loss to Kindersley guys, there was three schools here watching" or before the first game of the year " no matter what happens men, as long as we get a scholly out of this group, thats all that matters, we could go 0-56 for all I care". Wow!
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Post by stars123 on Mar 29, 2015 17:29:37 GMT -6
I'm not saying that winning is not important..but I believe that getting scholarships is the most important thing for a junior a team.... Of course no one likes to lose but the reality is at the end of the day, there is 1 team that's going to win and 11 teams that are going to "lose". Every team tries to win every year...
Your kid has never played major junior and is deciding between 2 teams...
Team A has won 3 years in a row and has given out 1 scholarship..
Team B has made the playoffs the last ten years and have been very competitive, but never won a championship and has given out 4 div1 scholarships each year for the last 3 years.
Where would you send your kid??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 21:31:58 GMT -6
Sometimes I think some people on here just want to split hairs and argue. Stars 123 makes a great comparision.
Remember this is a forum where you type. To get the full expression of your thoughts you may need to write a 2 page entry and that still won't do it. Instead of reading between the lines to prove an unknown human being to be wrong, why not read between the lines and add in the words you would for a friend. I'd consider the scholarship record of a club in my decision for my kid. Schollys last 4 yrs, a championship = 1 day less a year.
Congrats to the Norrish brothers. Who are lucky enough to get both
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Post by stupendousman on Mar 30, 2015 0:28:35 GMT -6
Sometimes I think some people on here just want to split hairs and argue. Stars 123 makes a great comparision. Remember this is a forum where you type. To get the full expression of your thoughts you may need to write a 2 page entry and that still won't do it. Instead of reading between the lines to prove an unknown human being to be wrong, why not read between the lines and add in the words you would for a friend. I'd consider the scholarship record of a club in my decision for my kid. Schollys last 4 yrs, a championship = 1 day less a year. Congrats to the Norrish brothers. Who are lucky enough to get both Except the issue isn't what parents of players would choose given two scenarios. The issue is whether "winning is secondary to moving kids on". So do teams try to win in order to attract talent that can maybe play NCAA Div. I one day, or do they try to recruit this type of player because he helps improve their chances of winning? Almost all of us know it's the latter for every SJHL team. I bet the average fan couldn't tell you the number of players from their team who have qualified for a Div. I scholarship in a given year, but almost all would be able to tell you how their team's season ended. I also agree with hockeygawd that titles and scholarships are not mutually exclusive. This argument from stars123 is less about team philosophy and more about finding any category his team is reasonably good at to gloss over the Stars' recent inability to win a championship. If the Stars had a few titles under their belts, he would be laughing at anyone trying to advance a scholarships-are-better-than-championships argument. |
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Post by stars123 on Mar 30, 2015 7:31:35 GMT -6
Ask your coach why your SJHL team lost out on a top end prospect you thought maybe would of signed with your team... He will tell you because the team he went to had more scholarships... If it was based on wins kids would be flocking to the SJHL... The league has to do a better job of getting kids scholarships or the trend will continue.. Ask your coach what the main question parents ask when recruiting there son.. How many kids from your program moved on to the next level? What's my kids chances of getting a scholarship?
Why would Ryland Pashovitz leave such a winning organization in Humboldt and go to Des Moines Buccaneers? A team that has only won 4 championships since 1980.. Its because he wanted the best opportunity to get a div1 scholarship..
Why did Luke McColgan go to a team that hadn't made the playoffs the last few yearss, and was a last place team?? Same answer as Pashovitz... He wanted the best opportunity to get a div1 scholarship...
What makes players want to go to BCHL? It's not the wins...cause the SJ has that.. It's the number of div1 scholarships they give out each year.. I've said it for years the SJ needs less WHL drop downs and more ncaa eligible players...
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Mar 30, 2015 7:35:44 GMT -6
The point of a developmental league is not lost....that is what the SJ is. The only thing stars123 said that I take issue with is about Beatty. I just disagree, I don't think two years in BC in last place is he end of the story. However, his description of a good coach fits Reagan nicely, but we know how a lot of fans feel about Reagan.....it's not enough for some that you can recruit high end players, make some great trades, make the post season every year, send as many players to the NCAA div 1 as any SJ coach have a great win loss record plus manage the financial bottom line. For some that is not enough...you need that title to be complete....it's a high standard....few achieve it. but as stars123 says, even if you do win the league, two bad years and it's "what have you done for me lately". That's the life of a hockey coach.
L4D
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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 30, 2015 11:26:47 GMT -6
Nice to see good debate and conversation.
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Post by swkot on Mar 30, 2015 11:38:58 GMT -6
This is a discussion that could go around in circles forever with no definitive answer because the value of each merit is entirely subjective. But in the spirit of discussion:
On a recruiting basis, NCAA scholarships are likely a small draw to the SJHL. Sask kids don't really get much, if any say in where they play providing they are on a team's list. So we are essentially talking about out of province recruiting. If a player is actively pursuing a scholarship, they are going to look at BC or Alberta first. There's also a lot more going on than NCAA scholarships. CIS, ACAC, semi-pro. Heck even finding solid employment via senior hockey team connections.
I'd actually be curious to know what the overall interest level in post secondary education is among SJHL players. I'd imagine there are a significant number where "if it happened, I'd probably take it", but it would not surprise me if less than 20% were playing with a goal of earning an NCAA scholarship.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 13:31:32 GMT -6
civil 2 way discussion - agreed.
Stars123 - I think you have made your point well but some will argue it forever.
I know several kids on one team are hoping for / looking for a scholarship with decisions made to help that become a reality. - they might be better off playing in BC but an SJ team has gained their confidence and respect, maybe closer to home is nice. Maybe they like the parody of the SJ where anyone can win and most teams are on a fairly equal footing to recruit and provide.
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trauma
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Post by trauma on Mar 30, 2015 16:32:25 GMT -6
I'd actually be curious to know what the overall interest level in post secondary education is among SJHL players. I'd imagine there are a significant number where "if it happened, I'd probably take it", but it would not surprise me if less than 20% were playing with a goal of earning an NCAA scholarship. I can guarantee that the overall interest from player's parents for ANY type of scholarship is higher than 20% as there is real life after hockey to consider. |
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Post by stars123 on Mar 30, 2015 16:55:24 GMT -6
I still think that ncaa eligible players coming into the league should have to write there ACT or SAT exams during the summer or during there last year of midget so that when the showcase rolls around in September scouts have that information readily available..
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Post by Beaverstreet on Mar 30, 2015 17:00:41 GMT -6
I had a billet with a Div I Scholly in his lap but declined. There was no interest for him to take it and the schooling wasn't up his alley. To each their own I suppose.
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