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Post by Statman on May 11, 2015 13:41:25 GMT -6
Only a few weeks away for the first ever (please correct me if I am wrong) Bantam draft for the SJHL. Does anybody have any thoughts on players or what teams will do or is this just a mute point? Do teams pick the best players available, do they pick the best player for what they need, do they pick players that are or are not drafted by WHL teams? Or do they trade draft picks for list players with other teams. This is where the GM and the scouts earn their keep.
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Post by rookie on May 11, 2015 15:23:07 GMT -6
Having gone from fairly uninformed on junior A draft to being somewhat more informed now...I would have to say that this is going to lower the quality of the game in the SJHL. Right now, players (if they are wanted by more than one team) can choose where they sign. And it is hard enough to keep them in province. Now, if they get drafted to a team that they don't want to go, we are basically encouraging them to choose a different league. The draft was to help teams who have problems recruiting players but I don't see how this will help. Yes, they can trade those draft picks for other players but that will just move the higher end players to the teams that did not have issues recruiting players in the first place. Lose/Lose proposition.
How are teams going to draft? Great question because it will depend on the strategy. Get the 'best player' who might end up in WHL, get a high end player who doesn't want to go WHL, plan to trade draft pick for other players, try to determine who will stay in province... too many variables...
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Post by stars123 on May 11, 2015 16:36:15 GMT -6
So any bantam aged player that's not drafted becomes a free agent then? it will be interesting to see how it works.. I know of players now that aren't happy with the team that listed them... It's the same any route you go.
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Post by stupendousman on May 11, 2015 16:43:06 GMT -6
I don't see how this changes the approach that SJHL teams use to recruit homegrown talent. Some of these questions that you guys bring up are some of the factors that are considered when teams list players now. Is this guy going to be a little too good and end up in the WHL? Will this guy sign with us when he's ready to play Junior A? I would expect to see more trades of list prospects with this draft system. I'm also betting we will see more of the Junior A version of the sign-and-trade. So if another team has a prospect that you think would play for you but not them, if you can't work out a trade with that team, you can always ask an AJHL team to sign that player and work out a trade with them later. I can see why people think that more Sask. Midget AAA players will bolt to the BCHL and AJHL, but if that player is truly willing to play in the SJHL and there's an SJHL team interested in his services, a deal will get done.
Under the previous system, I'm guessing certain teams had an inordinate amount of prospects choose their programs when a bunch of SJHL clubs listed them on their 15th birthday. So these select teams kept getting assets for free, not having to give up anything to get them to sign on the dotted line. At least this way, a club that previously didn't have that luxury knows that even if a top prospect doesn't sign with them, at least rival SJHL teams will have to give up something valuable to add them to their roster.
So the SJHL is willing to risk a few more prospects going elsewhere for more parity in the league. I can live with that trade-off.
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Post by oilersrock28 on May 11, 2015 16:53:53 GMT -6
rookie a player DOES NOT choose where he can play in the SJHL. The ONLY time a player CAN choose is if multiple teams express interest in said player but none of the above teams go as far as LISTING said player. if a player is playing midget hockey in a community with an SJHL team his rights automatically are with the same town if the SJ team lists the player within a specific time frame (i believe its when they turn 16...or 15?). if the local team does not list the player he is free game to any team in province. players under 18 can not be traded by sjhl teams out of province till they are in 18 year old season. further a midget eligible player can not choose to play out of province if there rights are listed by an SJHL club. now, the draft may murcky the waters terribly i honestly had no issues with this setup but the DRAFT like so many other things BILL CHOW has certified fresh seem on first glance as terrible ideas that increase the gap between SJHL and the aj, bc leages. the league imo has to make it easier for players to come to saskatchewan or stay here. the draft just gives a player no options if i was a parent i would dissaprove. long winded i know...
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Post by stars123 on May 11, 2015 17:05:30 GMT -6
From what i understand is under the old system a player can only choose where he plays if 2 teams list him on his 15th birthday..
I don't see how this will change the league at all.. The old system.. Said player was listed by team A. And said player didn't want to go to that team so said player leaves province... New system: said player is drafted by team A and doesn't want to go there so leaves province..
Also, let's say a top prospect is from one of the SJHL centres, that team can auto protect him and it basically defeats the purpose of lower teams trying to get better.. I believe there were at least 6 players from Yorkton drafted in the WHL bantam draft, and one of the top bantam players I've seen is from Estevan.. So those teams can auto protect those players plus they get 6 more draft picks.. What was wrong with the old way?? Teams still got to auto protect home town kids but were able to list kids they scouted first... Not having to wait for the draft and hoping that all the time you put into a kid will go to another team that found him 3 days before the draft.
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Post by stupendousman on May 11, 2015 19:22:53 GMT -6
I'm also betting we will see more of the Junior A version of the sign-and-trade. So if another team has a prospect that you think would play for you but not them, if you can't work out a trade with that team, you can always ask an AJHL team to sign that player and work out a trade with them later. On a side note, is this even a thing? I'm assuming this is allowed as long as the team that orchestrates this doesn't talk directly to the player in question if they are property of another team in their league. I personally don't have a huge issue with it because the other team involved in the transaction will want something of value in return. It used to be that SJHL teams who lost players to other leagues could keep those guys on their protected list if they had been on their list since age 15. The thinking was that teams might want to keep a guy on their list to block a trade of one of their prospects back into the league. Does anyone know if that rule is still in place? |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 22:03:44 GMT -6
Are we sure that the auto-protect for local kids is still in place fwith the draft. I thought someone say the auto-protect was abolished when the draft came in. Does anyone know for sure or are we just assuming?
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Post by SJfan15 on May 13, 2015 10:04:08 GMT -6
I think the auto-protect is more refined now, meaning the area's are smaller that are considered "local". Also, the biggest difference is the high end prospects.
With the last system, the high end players all would get recruited on their 15th birthday by more than 2 teams, giving him the choice of where he would prefer, keeping high end players in the league. Now, you take that choice away from the high end players who are going to be coming to this league, which could and probably will lead to them going to Alberta or BC or maybe Manitoba depending on the kid. That's the key. The downfall isn't the players who didn't have choices before, its the multiple kids who had choices which is now being taken away, which usually are the more heavily sought after players.
Working with that mentality, theoretically the league will lose the higher end Saskatchewan talent. Time will tell if the draft fixes things or not.
Side note: someone mentioned "well they can just work out trades with the Alberta or BC teams they go to". 1. That forces teams to trade assets when they wouldn't have had to before. 2. Who's to say these Alberta/BC teams are going to want to trade away the top talent they might be getting from this process?
It is going to be an experiment and will force teams to really do their homework on players before selecting them in the draft, which hopefully they were doing beforehand anyways. Chances are you will see first round picks who are maybe safer, who might for sure play in this league, while later round picks might be used on WHL-bound players. "Futures" if you will. Similar to the CFL draft in many ways.
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Post by stars123 on May 19, 2015 6:54:55 GMT -6
MJHL is the only other junior a league that uses the draft... They won the RBC..
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Post by rookie on May 19, 2015 7:42:22 GMT -6
MJHL is the only other junior a league that uses the draft... They won the RBC.. Most of their players playing this year did not come from draft but rather from trades, etc... |
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Post by swkot on May 19, 2015 8:15:20 GMT -6
MJHL is the only other junior a league that uses the draft... They won the RBC.. Most of their players playing this year did not come from draft but rather from trades, etc... Exactly. And some of then straight up demanded to go there. Talk about using anecdotal evidence. We aren't talking about a strong team from a strong league here, Portage was purpose built for the RBC and walked all over the rest of their league. The draft is supposed to help with league parity. If it is working in the MJHL then what is the deal with Neepawa and Wayway? |
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Post by glovernuts on May 25, 2015 18:14:35 GMT -6
I'm a Bantam parent with a son in this years draft. I'm trying to grasp as much info as possible. First if drafted by an SJHL team wouldn't that mean that the drafting team has rights over the drafted player regardless of where they live and play in two years? If a player decides he wants to leave and go elsewhere shouldn't some sort of compensation be given to the team that took the chance and protected the player as a 15 year old? As far as quality of player goes my son was just a bit on the outside of the WHL draft needs more time to develop. The SJHL scouts all ask about "grades" as im sure almost all do but it seems that there is an emphasis on it. I know a lot of parents will do what it takes to get their kids on the best teams and into the best programs. This has caused many doubts to weather this draft will be successful. It all seems a bit extreme to me as I like another comment believe it's all a journey and if you have what it takes you will get there. And how bad could it be to go play in NIpawan or FLin Flon and get to be a hockey God in a hockey town! Sounds like fun life experience to me.
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Post by stars123 on May 25, 2015 20:26:53 GMT -6
Yes, if a team drafts a player, that player is property of that team unless they drop him or If he is traded.. I'm curious to see how this will work.. I guess we will know in 2 or 3 years.
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Post by nofavorites on May 25, 2015 21:17:50 GMT -6
just have to be cautious before signing as this is a 19 and 20 year old league. not all coaches/teams develop players the same. they get you to sign and then become fixture on the bench. do some research and talk to people. may gave you some insight on what your boy will do. in most cases extra time playing aaa midget does not hurt.
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Post by stupendousman on May 25, 2015 22:40:01 GMT -6
I'm a Bantam parent with a son in this years draft. I'm trying to grasp as much info as possible. First if drafted by an SJHL team wouldn't that mean that the drafting team has rights over the drafted player regardless of where they live and play in two years? If a player decides he wants to leave and go elsewhere shouldn't some sort of compensation be given to the team that took the chance and protected the player as a 15 year old? As far as quality of player goes my son was just a bit on the outside of the WHL draft needs more time to develop. The SJHL scouts all ask about "grades" as im sure almost all do but it seems that there is an emphasis on it. I know a lot of parents will do what it takes to get their kids on the best teams and into the best programs. This has caused many doubts to weather this draft will be successful. It all seems a bit extreme to me as I like another comment believe it's all a journey and if you have what it takes you will get there. And how bad could it be to go play in NIpawan or FLin Flon and get to be a hockey God in a hockey town! Sounds like fun life experience to me. Great post, "glovernuts". Welcome to the forum. Are you asking about your kid's 17-year-old year? If so, then yes, the SJHL team that drafted him (barring a trade) would have the exclusive right nationwide to sign your kid and play him in Junior A. Also, if he was drafted, that would of course mean he wasn't auto-protected by his home town team. If he keeps playing Midget in his 17-year-old year, then he essentially becomes an unrestricted free agent in his 18-year-old year and can sign with any Junior A team in Canada, except the 11 SJHL clubs that don't hold his SJHL rights. I would love to see teams compensated for the prospects they lose to other provinces -- but the current system has its charms, too. The way it's set up now, a team can dramatically improve its on-ice product over one off-season. |
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Post by swkot on May 26, 2015 21:38:16 GMT -6
I can't remember it being discussed, are the results of the draft going to be made public?
If so, that's about the only factor of this new process that is of interest to me.
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mhlpxp
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What is your connection to the SJHL: A Fan
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Post by mhlpxp on May 27, 2015 9:01:28 GMT -6
MJHL is the only other junior a league that uses the draft... They won the RBC.. Actually, we operate using a draft in the Maritime Hockey League as well, and it works very well for us. Each team gets two territorial picks, which if a team chooses not to use them, become supplemental round picks to take any player not yet selected. A territorial pick then cannot be traded for a period of time. Each team is allowed to have up to 45 players on their protected list, which basically means that their Jr A rights in Canada are owned by that team. Since the MHL sends fewer players to the NCAA and more to the CIS, most teams use a handful of these extra spots to protect the rights of players in the QMJHL who may come back to Jr A in their 19 or 20 year old season. Other extra spots are used to protect the rights of players still playing midget until they come up to the Jr A level. We have had the draft for as long as I have been involved with this league (7 seasons), and even longer (I believe 11??). It is just a part of the league now, and the SJHL will adjust to it as well, I am sure. |
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Post by stars123 on May 28, 2015 13:51:44 GMT -6
Even without the draft, Saskatchewan kids are still leaving the province.. I just read that Owen Sillinger signed with Pentiction.. players leave every province every year.. Looking forward to hearing more about the draft. I think it'll be the same some kids stay some leave.. It's life of junior A hockey.
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Post by stupendousman on May 28, 2015 14:44:03 GMT -6
Looking forward to picking up my Hockey News SJHL Bantam Draft Preview issue and hosting my draft party.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 22:13:47 GMT -6
I don't blame Sillenger for leaving Penticton got cash growing out there a$$. Top prospect and Telus Cup MVP... Any words on Layne Young Stars123 I thought he was one of the best in all of AAA this year any idea if he'll stay?
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Post by stars123 on May 29, 2015 7:29:09 GMT -6
Not gonna comment... Training camp is still a few months away. Lots can happen.
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Post by swkot on May 29, 2015 7:52:49 GMT -6
I don't blame Sillenger for leaving Penticton got cash growing out there a$$. Top prospect and Telus Cup MVP... Any words on Layne Young Stars123 I thought he was one of the best in all of AAA this year any idea if he'll stay? It will be interesting to see how he pans out. Despite his AAA success giving reason to look forward to seeing him play at the next level, his time spent affiliated with the Mils this year showed otherwise. Played very timid, wouldn't risk taking a hit to make a play. But it's par for the course, seems most of Fiesel's list either makes the WHL or goes west. |
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Post by stars123 on Jun 1, 2015 18:11:07 GMT -6
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Post by voiceofthevoiceles on Jun 1, 2015 20:58:50 GMT -6
50 player protected list is correct |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 22:27:41 GMT -6
Stars 123 you must have better things to do than read the Nipawin Journal, like read well anything else.
Don't put much faith in the details of the Journal. It is a nice headline paper to get the idea across but the facts and details are often not - well factual or detailed. They have nice pictures though.
And if Beaverstreet likes to golf why is on here reading the forum when the grass is growing?
Have a good summer everyone.
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Post by stupendousman on Jun 2, 2015 14:36:50 GMT -6
A little strange that we're just two days away from the league's first-ever bantam draft, and we've yet to see any articles on the league website promoting it. Prospect profiles or interviews with GMs are some possible ideas. But maybe just the order of selection for each round would be a good start, especially since it sounds like some picks exchanged hands at the trade deadline.
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Post by stars123 on Jun 2, 2015 15:00:37 GMT -6
A little strange that we're just two days away from the league's first-ever bantam draft, and we've yet to see any articles on the league website promoting it. Prospect profiles or interviews with GMs are some possible ideas. But maybe just the order of selection for each round would be a good start, especially since it sounds like some picks exchanged hands at the trade deadline. There probably will be after the draft is over. Prob 3 weeks from some Tuesday.. |
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Post by glovernuts on Jun 3, 2015 12:19:49 GMT -6
So I am assuming that we will all be here tomorrow , live updates and discussion! Who is bringing what? I'll make a salad.
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Post by Dump-N-Chase on Jun 3, 2015 12:35:56 GMT -6
Anyone got a sniff on who the top picks could be?
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