1) Battlefords Vs 8) Weyburn

[flyswatter]

Mar 19, 2023 19:53:54 GMT -6 icedogg said:

Mar 19, 2023 17:20:45 GMT -6 flyswatter said:

After reading your post, I checked the video again. Doell was not hit in the numbers, but the shoulder. It appears that Doell takes a look up ice as he is turning to exit the zone, sees Reidy coming, and then loses a battle for position to a stronger player. Did Reidy explode through Doell? Sure he did; if he hadn’t gone in strong, he would have been the one on the ice. Did he intend to injure or battle for position? Only Reidy knows. Was there potential for injury? Sure there was. There is potential for injury on EVERY play where there is contact. But Doell saw Reidy coming, and instead of turning away from the check, tried to meet it with his shoulder, and was the player to fall down. Contrast this with the penalty that Doell took in game 1, where the Weyburn player could not have seen it coming. That, to me, was dirty. But my original post was not meant as a defense for anything that Reidy had done. It was meant to question Doell’s reaction after the hit and to start a conversation about embellishment and it’s effect on play in this league. He stayed down long enough for a major penalty to be called and then “recovered” in time to get out for his next shift. To me, this puts officials in a terrible spot. They are tasked with protecting the players, but too many players grab their chins if a stick gets too close (never mind touches that chin) or (and I suspect this was the case for Doell) lose a physical battle and feign injury to get a penalty call. (At least if a penalty is called, then losing a battle still feels like an accomplishment I suppose.) This is a no-win situation for officials: either a player is truly injured and the officials have NOT protected everyone on the ice, or a player embellishes, another has been unjustly punished, and the officials look like fools. Had Doell gotten up right away (and it seems that he could have but chose not to), I believe a 2 minute penalty would have been called and no supplementary discipline would be discussed. But the mandate is such that if there is an injury, a major penalty must be called, and there is a suspension. And players know this. Is this unfair or does it simply err on the side of caution? What happens when a player gains a reputation for embellishment and then suffers an injury that requires immediate treatment but officials know the reputation and fail to stop play in a timely manner? I remember well the story about the little boy who cried wolf, but it is increasingly apparent that too many hockey players in this league have never heard it. Am I off base about the embellishment going on in this league?

What it sounds like you are saying is that Doell sees Reidy coming but chose to battle, but he should have just got out of the way and gave up the puck.
Doell is expected to battle and Reidy is expected to ease up when he sees Doell is in a vulnerable position, but he decides to explode through him instead.
Be thankful Doell was able to return after being stunned. One of these times someone may not.
What’s done is done…move on

If you would rather not address the issue of embellishment as it may or may not to relate to this play, I am good with that, but please answer the final question of my previous post as it relates to the league in general.

[slapshot]

Mar 20, 2023 6:39:52 GMT -6 flyswatter said:

Mar 19, 2023 19:53:54 GMT -6 icedogg said:

What it sounds like you are saying is that Doell sees Reidy coming but chose to battle, but he should have just got out of the way and gave up the puck.
Doell is expected to battle and Reidy is expected to ease up when he sees Doell is in a vulnerable position, but he decides to explode through him instead.
Be thankful Doell was able to return after being stunned. One of these times someone may not.
What’s done is done…move on

If you would rather not address the issue of embellishment as it may or may not to relate to this play, I am good with that, but please answer the final question of my previous post as it relates to the league in general.

If you rather not address it was a dirty hit plain and simple that's ok.  Didn't know players have to be hurt a certain amount of time for you to be satisfied.  Seems like a stupid comment all around.  Luckily the player wasn't hurt more seriously.  When you charge and leave your feet to hit someone from behind, that's a very dangerous play but you can try and spin it anyway you want.

I get your trying to defend your team but it was a dangerous hit, the ref seen it that way and the player was penalized. Time to move on and focus on game 3.

[notbillchow]

The one very obvious thing that has happened in the first 2 games is Weyburn trying to key on Bell, Doell and southgate. Mostly physical, and I do understand why, it's probably because they understand if they don't, they won't match the Stars offence. But in the mean time they seem to have a steady stream going to the penalty box, and playing short handed vs the stars will eventually burn ya. The hit by Reidy was a bit excessive, it was not just finishing the check, hence the reason for the 5. And maybe he wasn't faking it, maybe it just took a few seconds to collect his marbles after getting mowed over. Is it worth extra games? not my call, but the league has set a precedent by other suspensions, so I'd be shocked if he didn't get another game.

[flyswatter]

With no one willing to answer my question, let me ask this: if the same hit occurs in game 5, but it’s Doell on Reidy, and Reidy gets up immediately and continues to play, would a penalty be called and if so, what would it be?

[slapshot]

Mar 20, 2023 10:12:16 GMT -6 flyswatter said:

With no one willing to answer my question, let me ask this: if the same hit occurs in game 5, but it’s Doell on Reidy, and Reidy gets up immediately and continues to play, would a penalty be called and if so, what would it be?

You would be sitting here screaming for a suspension for the dirty hit.  Again refs seen it as a dirty hit and that's why he was given the 5 mins.  The point is this, just cause a player isn't carried off on a stretcher doesn't make the play anymore or less dirty.  A dirty hit got called regardless how bad a player is hurt.  That's the way it works.  Time for game 3, less time making comments.  Obviously it's not sinking in with you.

[elbows]

so tell me this then, why do refs call 2 minutes for boarding when it is a clearly a hit from behind, every hit from behind is dangerous, injury occurred or not, their is no consistancy

[slapshot]

Mar 20, 2023 11:08:57 GMT -6 elbows said:

so tell me this then, why do refs call 2 minutes for boarding when it is a clearly a hit from behind, every hit from behind is dangerous, injury occurred or not, their is no consistancy

Maybe they didn't charge and leave their feet?  Just a guess though, hence why each hit is called on their own merits.  This is an age long debate here, that's why when refs make a call 50% of the rink disagree...just depends which side you cheer for!   

[wingnut1970]

Reidy is expected to ease up when he sees Doell is in a vulnerable position, but he decides to explode through him instead.
Be thankful Doell was able to return after being stunned. One of these times someone may not.

It’s already happened…Humboldts Caspari on Hawks Stewart Feb 24. Stewart jumps up right after charge. No call on play, no supplementary discipline….Stewart hasn’t played since, Hawks haven’t been the same since.

[icedogg]

flyswatter asked for a comment on the embellishment in the league.
First off every person has a different pain tolerance so consider that in the equation. Some will get up some will stay down in pain, others might be able to shake it off and keep playing.
If you get the wind knocked out of you, you are more likely to stay down but there are those who will fight to get to the bench.
And there are those who embellish and should serve for unsportsmanlike conduct.
In regards to going off with help and coming out a few shifts later.
Maybe you can understand this scenario…
If you get kicked in the nuts by someone, you will probably drop, roll around and take days to recover.
Someone else gets kicked in the nuts, maybe takes a knee for a minute to catch his breath and then jumps up and down to get them to drop back in place. Now that said person is ready to get on with whatever they were doing. Play the game! Everyone is different.
Refs make the calls on the the potential danger of a check or penalty, not on the outcome of the injury of the player.
It is the league that reviews the play and issues the suspension.
If hope this helps 🙂

[flyswatter]

This is what I’m getting at. If no one lays on the ice, the hit is deemed legal. If someone lays there, the result is a penalty and suspension. How do referees filter everything out when guys who aren’t injured lay there and guys who are injured don’t lay there? Embellishment (and conversely, at times, lack of embellishment) affect outcomes of games. How can players be made more…honest? Or is this just the nature of the sport now?

[flyswatter]

Mar 20, 2023 14:00:46 GMT -6 icedogg said:

flyswatter asked for a comment on the embellishment in the league.
First off every person has a different pain tolerance so consider that in the equation. Some will get up some will stay down in pain, others might be able to shake it off and keep playing.
If you get the wind knocked out of you, you are more likely to stay down but there are those who will fight to get to the bench.
And there are those who embellish and should serve for unsportsmanlike conduct.
In regards to going off with help and coming out a few shifts later.
Maybe you can understand this scenario…
If you get kicked in the nuts by someone, you will probably drop, roll around and take days to recover.
Someone else gets kicked in the nuts, maybe takes a knee for a minute to catch his breath and then jumps up and down to get them to drop back in place. Now that said person is ready to get on with whatever they were doing. Play the game! Everyone is different.
Refs make the calls on the the potential danger of a check or penalty, not on the outcome of the injury of the player.
It is the league that reviews the play and issues the suspension.
If hope this helps 🙂

Thank you for an honest, detached answer

[flyswatter]

Icedog, I am jumping up and down for joy now that we have it on your authority that there is no embellishment, just different pain tolerances. Now could you please explain the phenomenon of players who are ALMOST hit in the face with a stick yet still grab their chins anyway and draw a penalty? Is it your position that pain tolerances are so varied that one can feel pain even when something almost happens? Is high sticking a thing that also gets called on the basis of potential danger? I am not referring to any specific incident here, just a general observation.

[icedogg]

Mar 20, 2023 15:38:22 GMT -6 flyswatter said:

Icedog, I am jumping up and down for joy now that we have it on your authority that there is no embellishment, just different pain tolerances. Now could you please explain the phenomenon of players who are ALMOST hit in the face with a stick yet still grab their chins anyway and draw a penalty? Is it your position that pain tolerances are so varied that one can feel pain even when something almost happens? Is high sticking a thing that also gets called on the basis of potential danger? I am not referring to any specific incident here, just a general observation.

Refer to lines 10 and 11 of my previous post.

[flyswatter]

Ahh. My apologies. I missed that sentence the first time around. Thank you. How often do you see that penalty called? I do not recall seeing it called in any SJ game I have ever watched, but I can’t say that I have tried to keep track either. You seem quite knowledgeable about hockey in general. You must watch a lot of hockey. If you were a referee, what would you look for in order to determine whether or not to call that penalty? Also, would you as a referee be able to accurately gauge a player’s pain tolerance and if so, would that go into your decision?

[thedagger]

Stars plain and simple were by far the better team last night. Best player on the ice was Dazza Mitchell , and it wasn't close , without his incredible play it's a 5 or 6-0 game after two periods . The Wings had no answer offensively , legs weren't moving , couldn't handle the Stars pressuring the points on the PP , etc.... They'll need a much better effort tonight. I know your supposed to come on the boards and complain about officials after your team loses a playoff game , and although they weren't sharp IMO , it wasn't favouring either team , and their performance had no bearing on the final score. But they were sloppy. I believe the Wings do have a legitimate shot to even it up tonight. Kotai did not look good even with the goose egg on the board , rebounds everywhere , fighting the puck , didn't look comfortable and basically the real chances the Wings had were based of his inability to control the puck. Fun atmosphere , the crowd waited all game to explode and had a great vibe in the building , hoping for a cleaner effort in Game 4.

[Firefighter68]

The two penalties to Weyburn in the 2nd were bogus. The Wings were continually having to pick up their sticks after being slashed out of their hands. Dazza was the best player by far. Also think that the Stars deserve an Oscar as every time they get hit they look to the ref for a call. Doell is a very good actor. This won't cut it if the Stars make it to the Centennial cup as Estevan tried those antics and it bit them in the ass. The Stars are by far the better team. Curious on who the stripes will be tonight but anticipate it will be "I am so great" Al Scott and Bob I am BLIND Millette

[slapshot]

Mar 22, 2023 9:03:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

The two penalties to Weyburn in the 2nd were bogus. The Wings were continually having to pick up their sticks after being slashed out of their hands. Dazza was the best player by far. Also think that the Stars deserve an Oscar as every time they get hit they look to the ref for a call. Doell is a very good actor. This won't cut it if the Stars make it to the Centennial cup as Estevan tried those antics and it bit them in the ass. The Stars are by far the better team. Curious on who the stripes will be tonight but anticipate it will be "I am so great" Al Scott and Bob I am BLIND Millette

I find it comical that you are trying to complain when the reffing has been in Weyburn's favor.  Lot's of late hits and interference by Weyburn, like Florence early in the 3rd and again with the empty netter on Bell.  Can't keep up so they are running around throwing dirty hits.  They have been lucky that Mitchell has been playing as good as he has or it would have been very lopsided.  Maybe if they focused more on actually playing hockey it would be a better outcome for them.

[Firefighter68]

Mar 22, 2023 9:38:56 GMT -6 slapshot said:

Mar 22, 2023 9:03:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

The two penalties to Weyburn in the 2nd were bogus. The Wings were continually having to pick up their sticks after being slashed out of their hands. Dazza was the best player by far. Also think that the Stars deserve an Oscar as every time they get hit they look to the ref for a call. Doell is a very good actor. This won't cut it if the Stars make it to the Centennial cup as Estevan tried those antics and it bit them in the ass. The Stars are by far the better team. Curious on who the stripes will be tonight but anticipate it will be "I am so great" Al Scott and Bob I am BLIND Millette

I find it comical that you are trying to complain when the reffing has been in Weyburn's favor.  Lot's of late hits and interference by Weyburn, like Florence early in the 3rd and again with the empty netter on Bell.  Can't keep up so they are running around throwing dirty hits.  They have been lucky that Mitchell has been playing as good as he has or it would have been very lopsided.  Maybe if they focused more on actually playing hockey it would be a better outcome for them.

So what you are saying is we shouldn't be hitting the delicate Stars. They turn their back on every hit trying to draw a penalty. Every time Doell gets hit, he grabs his chin or face. Just glad some refs see through the acting. On the Stars second goal , not sure how many times Dazza was slashed but we counted 3.

[slapshot]

Mar 22, 2023 9:51:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

Mar 22, 2023 9:38:56 GMT -6 slapshot said:

I find it comical that you are trying to complain when the reffing has been in Weyburn's favor.  Lot's of late hits and interference by Weyburn, like Florence early in the 3rd and again with the empty netter on Bell.  Can't keep up so they are running around throwing dirty hits.  They have been lucky that Mitchell has been playing as good as he has or it would have been very lopsided.  Maybe if they focused more on actually playing hockey it would be a better outcome for them.

So what you are saying is we shouldn't be hitting the delicate Stars. They turn their back on every hit trying to draw a penalty. Every time Doell gets hit, he grabs his chin or face. Just glad some refs see through the acting. On the Stars second goal , not sure how many times Dazza was slashed but we counted 3.

They have been running around like meat sticks all series so far and it hasn't been working out for them.  So continue, just hope Mitchell keeps playing out of his mind.  Sooner or later he will crack under pressure.

[southguy]

Mar 22, 2023 10:01:30 GMT -6 slapshot said:

Mar 22, 2023 9:51:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

So what you are saying is we shouldn't be hitting the delicate Stars. They turn their back on every hit trying to draw a penalty. Every time Doell gets hit, he grabs his chin or face. Just glad some refs see through the acting. On the Stars second goal , not sure how many times Dazza was slashed but we counted 3.

They have been running around like meat sticks all series so far and it hasn't been working out for them.  So continue, just hope Mitchell keeps playing out of his mind.  Sooner or later he will crack under pressure.

if it wasn't for Dazza, this wouldn't even be close
the refs missed a few calls on either side, the biggest one being a cheap shot to Bell after the scored the 3 goal, to start a whole bunch of crap,when the game is over

Weyburn does have a good team if they would play hockey instead of running around, mostly Matteo Turrin , they can play with most teams

[blackandyellow]

Officiating has been brutal in so many of these playoff games. This is a serious league issue, imo.

[stars123]

Mar 22, 2023 9:51:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

Mar 22, 2023 9:38:56 GMT -6 slapshot said:

I find it comical that you are trying to complain when the reffing has been in Weyburn's favor.  Lot's of late hits and interference by Weyburn, like Florence early in the 3rd and again with the empty netter on Bell.  Can't keep up so they are running around throwing dirty hits.  They have been lucky that Mitchell has been playing as good as he has or it would have been very lopsided.  Maybe if they focused more on actually playing hockey it would be a better outcome for them.

So what you are saying is we shouldn't be hitting the delicate Stars. They turn their back on every hit trying to draw a penalty. Every time Doell gets hit, he grabs his chin or face. Just glad some refs see through the acting. On the Stars second goal , not sure how many times Dazza was slashed but we counted 3.

I don’t see any slashes on the 2nd goal? What is the meat head doing hitting bell like that after the goal?

[Beaverstreet]

Mar 22, 2023 10:37:13 GMT -6 stars123 said:

Mar 22, 2023 9:51:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

So what you are saying is we shouldn't be hitting the delicate Stars. They turn their back on every hit trying to draw a penalty. Every time Doell gets hit, he grabs his chin or face. Just glad some refs see through the acting. On the Stars second goal , not sure how many times Dazza was slashed but we counted 3.

I don’t see any slashes on the 2nd goal? What is the meat head doing hitting bell like that after the goal?

I wouldn't say "after the goal" he hit him the exact time he was shooting the puck.

[Firefighter68]

Mar 22, 2023 10:37:13 GMT -6 stars123 said:

Mar 22, 2023 9:51:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

So what you are saying is we shouldn't be hitting the delicate Stars. They turn their back on every hit trying to draw a penalty. Every time Doell gets hit, he grabs his chin or face. Just glad some refs see through the acting. On the Stars second goal , not sure how many times Dazza was slashed but we counted 3.

I don’t see any slashes on the 2nd goal? What is the meat head doing hitting bell like that after the goal?

You are kidding right. Dazza was slashed all night long. Stars had 3 missed too many men and the one Magoo was right by the bench.By my count there has been 18 - 10 minute misconducts, one major penalty and a 2 game suspension on a clean hit, phantom tripping calls, missed too many men penalties in the first 3 games of the series

[Firefighter68]

Mar 22, 2023 10:37:13 GMT -6 stars123 said:

Mar 22, 2023 9:51:28 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

So what you are saying is we shouldn't be hitting the delicate Stars. They turn their back on every hit trying to draw a penalty. Every time Doell gets hit, he grabs his chin or face. Just glad some refs see through the acting. On the Stars second goal , not sure how many times Dazza was slashed but we counted 3.

I don’t see any slashes on the 2nd goal? What is the meat head doing hitting bell like that after the goal?

c Bell got smoked at the same time as he put the puck in. Got caught with his head down.

[stars123]

Mar 22, 2023 10:45:56 GMT -6 Firefighter68 said:

Mar 22, 2023 10:37:13 GMT -6 stars123 said:

I don’t see any slashes on the 2nd goal? What is the meat head doing hitting bell like that after the goal?

You are kidding right. Dazza was slashed all night long. Stars had 3 missed too many men and the one Magoo was right by the bench.By my count there has been 18 - 10 minute misconducts, one major penalty and a 2 game suspension on a clean hit, phantom tripping calls, missed too many men penalties in the first 3 games of the series

What about the Running of Kotai in games 1&2? Sure the officiating hasn’t been great but, Weyburn has got away with lots as well… they’ve taken some pretty stupid penalties.. you make it sound like the officiating was one sided.. Weyburn had an extended 5 on 3 they couldn’t score on and the penalties were 6 aside..

[dima]

My observations after 3 games.
1. Battleford is obviously a very skilled team. No doubting or questioning that. Their ability to pass tape to tape is top notch.
2. Weyburn doesn’t look like a 8th place team. Battleford gets flustered when the line of Morgan-Mason-Hassman is out. If Weyburn played this hard against ND and Nipawin the last half, no doubt they’d be the 6/7 place team.
3. Good goaltending both directions.
4. Don’t know if it’s coached or self taught, but the amount of penalty drawing battleford does is actually sad (or good for them depends how you look at it). Every time a player gets hit (or skated by) they grab their face, honestly to the extend that it’s comical. Effective at getting them PPs, yes, but embarrassing, also yes. When the reffing at the national level improves, they won’t get away with it.

[flyswatter]

After seeing the Stars play live for the first time this year, I see the speed and skill that I could not on the Hockey TV feed from NB. They are good and must expect to feel some pain in playoff hockey. That is the nature of playoff hockey. Why should anyone make it easy for them? Comical that someone whose handle is “slapshot” would have such an intolerance for rough play. Perhaps a switch to “petunia” would be apt.

[slapshot]

Mar 22, 2023 11:02:18 GMT -6 flyswatter said:

After seeing the Stars play live for the first time this year, I see the speed and skill that I could not on the Hockey TV feed from NB. They are good and must expect to feel some pain in playoff hockey. That is the nature of playoff hockey. Why should anyone make it easy for them? Comical that someone whose handle is “slapshot” would have such an intolerance for rough play. Perhaps a switch to “petunia” would be apt.

I have zero issue with a good clean check.  What I do have an issue with is hitting guys late, blindside and between the numbers when their back and in a vulnerable position.  Sorry but dirty hits are not "playoff" hockey.  But obviously HockeyTV lies and must have been edited.   I get this is the approach Weyburn figures they have to take to win the series but don't sit here and whine about the officiating when they have gotten away with a lot. 

I think Weyburn has a good team and if they focused less on running around they very well could make this a long hard series.

[thedagger]

Mar 22, 2023 10:45:32 GMT -6 Beaverstreet said:

Mar 22, 2023 10:37:13 GMT -6 stars123 said:

I don’t see any slashes on the 2nd goal? What is the meat head doing hitting bell like that after the goal?

I wouldn't say "after the goal" he hit him the exact time he was shooting the puck.

100% , but don't dare come at these types of postgame threads with any common sense . The narrative that the Wings are some goon ridden squad that's running around trying to injure / cheap hit players is a lazy , and a tad comical coming from the 2nd best team in the country. They have to attempt the be physical because skill for skill there isn't a competitive balance. That means they'll likely end up taking more penalties etc , etc... and the Stars will try and get the extra calls because of that , the game within the game. Officiating isn't playing a part in any of the outcomes Games 1 through 3.