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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 22:23:34 GMT -6
Backcheck says it all, and so clear. This whole thing is the result of the league failing due diligence. Others have screwed up since then but the root is SJHL lack of thought. How many Melfort players felt cheated because they can't claim "all" the glory for the Dec 14th win? I'd like to take a survey.
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Post by brewersdroop on Dec 22, 2014 0:15:47 GMT -6
There are a few officials who come from Melville and if anything, they have a reverse bias. To be honest, it gets pretty tiring watching refs from Yorkton or Melville working every important game of the season for the Millionaires. I think there are quite a few referees who favour one team over another.
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Post by backcheck on Dec 22, 2014 9:33:32 GMT -6
Agree. Why put a ref in a no win situation like that? On that note if this suspension goes to appeal I hope Bill Chow has the good sense to remove himself from the process since he has worked for the Melfort Mustangs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 10:41:48 GMT -6
I would like to know where backcheck got his information from on Tad Kozun reffing the December 31st game against Melfort. It's highly unlikely that Kozun's NCAA team would let him be reffing over the Xmas break, or are you just trying to get a rise out of the Nipawin/Melfort fans?
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Post by Firefighter68 on Dec 22, 2014 11:35:12 GMT -6
December 22, 2014
The Nipawin Hawks appealed the 8 game suspension and $400.00 fine to Doug Johnson. After a review by the Appeal committee the suspension was reduced to 5 games and a $400.00 fine. And yes Schmyr is a joke just as he was as a player.
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Post by backcheck on Dec 22, 2014 14:03:44 GMT -6
hawkeyplayer - that was me trying to make a point with a joke. A former Hawk player has no more business reffing a Mustang / Hawk game than a former Mustang player. Even if Kozun were a ref and could be completely impartial it would be stupid of the league to put him in that position.
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Post by ipeecoy on Dec 22, 2014 19:14:24 GMT -6
There are a few officials who come from Melville and if anything, they have a reverse bias. To be honest, it gets pretty tiring watching refs from Yorkton or Melville working every important game of the season for the Millionaires. I think there are quite a few referees who favour one team over another. Just like few years back, mackintosh worked almost all of the bronco home games, expect the one game that we needed him, he wasn't refereeing. That was the game deano blasted the referees about the bar scene the night before, never got anything for that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 23:30:30 GMT -6
The fact that the suspension for verbal abuse was dropped would convince me that it was bogus which would also indicate Chow had a mad on for a certain person. As one of you said earlier, just keep typing up the charges since we are already at the keyboard! So now no one can say he was malicious or hateful because the appeal board has made that clear.
The breach of social media is wishy/washy. The document isn't well defined. 1- Emails sent to specific addresses of people who have been asked to get your fan messages is difficult to consider social. 2- Has anyone ever seen the CJHL coaches code of conduct? Is it online? Kind of hard to know if you breach this if you can't read it.
This issue is polarizing the respect for Mr. Johnson. Some say he went too far others think he did what he needed to do. Maybe he did count the cost and maybe he was willing to pay the price because I truly believe that when this is all said and done the SJHL will have a better set of standards in place to schedule officials, one that will be better and more fair to the whole league.
Perhaps Mr. Johnson has led by example. He preaches that players need to step up for one another for the betterment of the team. Perhaps he stood up for the teams of the SJHL for the betterment of the league. Some players get 5 minutes for fighting against a player, Mr. Johnson got 5 games for fighting against the league, but maybe he rallied the troops for a better outcome.
The more I think about it, the more I like what he did.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 6:35:30 GMT -6
WOW.....Bring out the towel
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Post by nofavorites on Dec 24, 2014 9:19:23 GMT -6
well it probably doesn't matter who refs there games now? no matter who is doing there game they will not get the call that they need or want. if you haven't figured out anything refs do talk among themselves and make a mental note of what has been going on. you can bet your last dollar all will remember this when they do a nipawin game. it will make for another long boring post.
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Post by pureel on Dec 27, 2014 22:42:03 GMT -6
Just sent Chow and Cook an email and I am not even a fan of the Hawks, but as a Terrier fan I would never want to see a former Millionaire ref a game between the Terriers and Millioniares
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Dec 28, 2014 9:47:25 GMT -6
just took a look at the hawks schedule after xmas....play melfort three times in five games, the hounds and mils....some big games in there.....have to see how the hawks perform over the next five, if they tank, maybe doug actions were toooo much of a distraction, if they thrive, doug is coach of the year. l4d
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Post by ipeecoy on Dec 28, 2014 12:38:22 GMT -6
Just sent Chow and Cook an email and I am not even a fan of the Hawks, but as a Terrier fan I would never want to see a former Millionaire ref a game between the Terriers and Millioniares Mosts likely hell would freeze over before you would get a reply back from "You Know" Billy Chow. Pureel, but your okay with a former Terrier to ref games between Yorkton and Melville.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 21:47:11 GMT -6
Pureel - thanks for your help with the cause. Might mean a bit more coming from someone who doesn't live in the northeast.
Just researched Shmyr's playing dates with Melfort. 2001-2004. From my experience with the SJHL, my physical involvement on the ice, my emotional ties and the time it took to get away from those things to the point where I kind of considered myself to be "just" a fan again was over 15 yrs.- but it still comes back from time to time. I did not play for a team, I did not eat drink and breath with the team - , I can't believe, and you'll never convince me that any player can be away from the dressing room for just 10 yrs and leave it all behind to the point where he is fair to all.. It is good to see players return and give back as an official but not with the team they played for.
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Post by sjhlfanatic on Dec 28, 2014 23:29:01 GMT -6
I have attended many SJHL games over the years, and can honestly say that the hawks have great hockey team this year. Unfortunately I don’t think they will see very much success in the long run again. A good coach keeps his team focused on the task at hand. I am not saying that good coaches don’t get emotional or have the odd blowup, but they usually do that with the purpose to spark their team. From what I have seen, the Hawks bench boss has had tendencies to lose his cool and take his team down a path which takes their focus off playing hockey. A coach’s job is to always lead his team in a direction that will point towards success, which I think can be lost with this team. Sending out mail to a community about and official “Plaguing” their team, sounds like a person who is more willing to point fingers than take accountability for their teams actions. Coaches and referees having conflicts is a pretty normal thing in the game of hockey, but good coaches will step up when faced with adversity. They will adjust their team’s style of play to suit what is needed for the given situation (including opponents or officials). The letter that was sent out looks like it was sent out by someone with a complete lack of ethics. I would be embarrassed to attach my name to such a thing. You would never see such a thing from a Bob Beatty or a Dwight McMillan. Sadly I think that just put a black mark on the Hawks organization, which is really too bad for the players and organizational staff that are working hard to make the Hawks a classy organization. I know if I were on the board of directors, I would be seriously questioning their current coaching contract when it comes up this spring.
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Post by stars123 on Dec 29, 2014 0:03:22 GMT -6
Sjhl fanatic: you hit the nail on the head.. Agreed.. Johnson stepped out of line.. It's the same thing everywhere.. You have to adjust to the surroundings.
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Post by agatekeeper on Dec 29, 2014 17:46:47 GMT -6
sjhlfanatic I totally disagree with your prediction for the hawks and the cause of any hawks fate I am sure it is easy for some to coach from the other side of the glass and have the perfect plan to run a team As previous messages noted that what Johnson did was not wrong so how can it be a complete lack of ethics There have been other coaches that have done some questionable things - Melville coach cleaning a bench that made TSN - I think he was suspended for two games, or a Humboldt coach that I recall called the officials as drunk on the air - I think was not suspended I have witnessed over the last three years a coach that has taken over a totally dismantled team and a non existent list and has fought tooth an nail for his team as it was rebuilding - basically the hawks are the Rodney Dangerfield of the league - They get no respect and I do not think they were ever given any respect by the league for their thirty years in existence. Being that the coach is a former player for the Hawks I am sure that there is a ton of pride and respect for the crest and the organization in addition to a dedication to win the RBC. I am also sure that any organization and players would be honored to have a dedicated coach like Johnson on their team. So with that being said if I were on the board of directors I would seriously question the board for not already awarding Coach Johnson a new extended contract before Christmas - rewarding him now for what he started with to where he is now and where the team will be in the future There is no perfect coach in the SJHL - if there was they would be in the NHL. Every coach needs to be passionate, dedicated and consistent not only to the players but also the fans and the organization. As a hawks fan - do I want to see the hawks win - absolutely. As another fan mentioned to me it is exciting to go the rink knowing we have good chance in winning every game and that has not happened with many previous coaches The league has their own problems that may make them the laughing stock in the CJHL and this form of action does not fix the root of their problems The suspensions are a joke - The hawks are building a stronger organization each year under the direction of Coach Johnson and will continue to do so for many years to come with Coach Johnson We saw what happened with Hardy and all hawks fans do not want to see that again - sign Coach Johnson, support Coach Johnson and move ahead
Have a happy new year and see you at the rink GO HAWKS GO
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Post by realitycanhurt on Dec 30, 2014 11:37:04 GMT -6
It's a typical Nipawin response,Poor Poor Nipawin 30 years of no respect, come on absolutely no disrespect from league or players when Bruce was there or Hardy and remember your board hired Colin and lost all respect the team had. Another bad decision by board was Hyrsky dismantled A team Hardy built to make a run. Doug has done decent job but no playoff success doesn't warrant extension. Nipawin fans need to stop making excuses and adapt. ....reality can hurt
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Post by realitycanhurt on Dec 30, 2014 11:38:30 GMT -6
pardon me 25 years without winning
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Post by mrbodangles on Dec 30, 2014 12:26:14 GMT -6
It's a typical Nipawin response,Poor Poor Nipawin 30 years of no respect, come on absolutely no disrespect from league or players when Bruce was there or Hardy and remember your board hired Colin and lost all respect the team had. Another bad decision by board was Hyrsky dismantled A team Hardy built to make a run. Doug has done decent job but no playoff success doesn't warrant extension. Nipawin fans need to stop making excuses and adapt. ....reality can hurt i might be wrong but i think the topic / issue is the sj scheduling refs to do gms that they have ties to which seems hard to believe happens . .
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Post by thegreat1 on Dec 30, 2014 15:39:10 GMT -6
As someone with inside knowledge, I can tell you this in regards to the game in Nipawin that started this whole discussion. It was a four man system. Eight penalties issued to Nipawin, four to Melfort. I know for fact, there was a reffing supervisor at the game, because I know him personally. I know for fact, the game tape was reviewed by the league at the board of governers meetings (which were happening at the same time), and of the eight penalties, either both ref's, or Bexson called 6 of them. Shmyr called 2. So to say it was favourtism is actually laughable. According to the game sheet, Nipawin never had a penalty in the third, if Shmyr was out to get Nipawin, would he not of tried to keep them in the box?
Also, I can tell you this; Johson's players are less than impressed, they know that this will affect them negatively, how can't it? The reffing community is small, and what Johnson did was wrong. Contrary to what agatekeeper thinks, Johnson doesn't have the locker room on his side, they are playing for their teammates, not him. Simlilar to Melfort's playoff push two years ago, they played for each other, not Holcomb, they hated him.
With respect to Shmyr, if you could poll all coaches (except Johnson obviously haha), I'd bet he'd be one of their top picks to do the game. He's been there, he's been in the trenches and knows the game. Having played in the league, he has rapor with players that doesn't exist with other ref's who haven't. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to watch a game and figure out if the ref has played high level hockey (Valette is another one). As mentioned earlier, he did grow up in Saskatoon, I guess he shouldn't do blades games??? He does all the time if you follow that leauge. He's reffed at world under 17's and does more whl games, and CIS than SJ, so I'm betting he's got better things to do than try to deliberately pick on Nipawin. I wonder if anyone know's he's got a relative on the Hawk's? Even more of a reason not to try and screw things for Nipawin.
To me this is a excuse, and Johnson is grasping at straws.
"Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses." - George Washington
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Post by nofavorites on Dec 30, 2014 16:13:49 GMT -6
well put, lets look forward to the upcoming games. they should be entertaining.
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Post by ipeecoy on Dec 30, 2014 19:09:05 GMT -6
One of the major problems with the two ref system is that each guy has a different standard, so what is called or not called in one end, is complete opposite in the other end.
Maybe it's not what the boy called, but what he didn't call ...
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Post by realitycanhurt on Dec 30, 2014 21:31:46 GMT -6
They get no respect and I do not think they were ever given any respect by the league for their thirty years in existence.
The response was to this
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 8:22:25 GMT -6
thegreat1 you have "inside knowledge" is your last name Macintosh? I was at the game also, There were calls made that had no business being called. Too many men on the ice for Melfort for 10 seconds and then have Lockeridge come down and get pushed into the goalie and receive a penalty. Shmyr is a joke of a ref, I don't care if you know him "personally" either. I've seen it more than once when he has came here. Nipawins fans average age is 60+ and he had them all on there feet booing , he must feel like he did a helluva job. Johnson may have stepped over the line but I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing Shmyr here for a while. Hawks are 1-0 without him on the bench. They are in tough against Melfort no matter how you look at it. Finish the 5 games off 4-1 would be alright with me and not having to see that clown back on our ice would make it feel like we went 5-0. “If your brains were dynamite there wouldn't be enough to blow your hat off.” - Kurt Vonnegut
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Post by thegreat1 on Dec 31, 2014 9:46:11 GMT -6
Rumor has it Shmyr and Mackintosh are assigned the game in Melfort tonight.
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Post by stars123 on Dec 31, 2014 9:47:21 GMT -6
There is no rule saying shmyr can't ref any Nipawin games.. He could ref another 10 games this year against Nipawin, and now that he knows dougy doesn't like him, he could have a chip on his shoulder.. Refs talk to each other as well.. It's like anything else you respect the person in charge and they respect you... You don't respect the person in charge and they won't respect you.. It's a 2 way street.... Who cares if he played with Melfort? Rockie Zinger played with Neepawa... Is he giving Neepawa players so they can be competitive?? NO.. What if Rocky ever plays against Neepawa? Is he gonna let them win cause he used to play there?? Same for Kevin Hasselberg.. Kevin played with the MOB, if the stars ever play against the MOB is he gonna let them win cause he is an alumini of that team??? Is kevin giving players to the MOB so they can win? Childerhose in Flin flon used to play with Melfort.... Does that mean he's gonna want melfort to win when flin flon plays them?? Hockey is a business and when your getting paid to do a job you have to be professional when you do it... every game there is gonna be calls that go one side or the other.. The ref can't see everything.. I've been to games where the refs have been horrible and it seemed one sided and the ref wasnt an alumini of either team..
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Post by nofavorites on Dec 31, 2014 10:10:41 GMT -6
this is getting old!!!! the posts are being repeated. lets move on at least until after tongights game.
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Post by myopinion on Dec 31, 2014 10:53:49 GMT -6
I will be glad when the rest of the story comes out. Maybe Doug will tell CJVR on his pregame interview with Crowe. I will be listening
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 14:00:52 GMT -6
I doubt that Doug will do the pregame - maybe but I doubt it. Who ever said he has all the facts and knows that the team plays for the other players may be a bit off track. I have talked to most of the Hawk players, heard the dressing room conversation, seen and heard the coach address the team and have heard the word on the street. Unless the team has made a vow to each other to lie about their appreciation of their coach,there is a great appreciation. Ask some what they like about DJ, they all have a different and specific answer. They aren't making it up. Yes - These arguements are getting old - and off topic. The scenarios are interesting but not relevant to the thread.It isn't about a guy moving from player to ref , its about a player of a specific team to ref of a specific team. If the SJHL has scheduled Shmyr for the DEC 31 game it would prove they are incompetent, unprofessional, childish and revengeful. etc etc. They should learn from this instead of fight it to prove who has the authority. Good leaders will admit their error and correct it. We'll see if the SJHL walks that road. And to believe anyone doesn't have a soft spot for his old team is ridiculous. If Neepawa,Portage, Dauphin and OCN all offered Rocky $1000 for "player A" I am sure Neepawa would get him.
The biggest joke of all this is this forum. Most of the poster have executed a ref on their own initiative - see other threads for proof - but on this thread many defend the official. Hypocricy. Its not about Shmyr's ability, its his asscociation.
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