Weyburn Financial Difficulties

[weyburn12]

This week the city has been overrun with rumours that the Wings are having some serious money issues. I've heard many different stories but the one thing everyone's story has in common is that it's so bad, that the team's bank accounts have been frozen.

Nothing official has come from the team as of yet but the fact that it's currently the talk of the town has me a bit worried. Their attendance is definitely/obviously down from previous years. And to be honest this is the first time the Wings have been the "talk of the town" for a very long time. It's like they're invisible and no one cares anymore.

Maybe this will get people to smarten up and start supporting the club again? The wings are one of the last teams I thought would run into this kind of problem.

Thoughts? Anyone else hear anything about this?

[thegreat1]

I've heard that kindersley is over a year behind in ice fees to the city, La ronge and Humboldt are in real trouble as well. Nipawin was in real trouble for awhile back but their farmland fundraiser has really helped them.

Only three teams in Saskatchewan showed a profit last season from what I've heard. Estevan, Yorktown and Melfort. 3 of only 20 jr a teams in canada to be profitable. Not a good sign. Sticks and travel expenses are killing the teams.

[swkot]

Jan 14, 2015 7:55:27 GMT -6 thegreat1 said:

I've heard that kindersley is over a year behind in ice fees to the city, La ronge and Humboldt are in real trouble as well. Nipawin was in real trouble for awhile back but their farmland fundraiser has really helped them.

Only three teams in Saskatchewan showed a profit last season from what I've heard. Estevan, Yorktown and Melfort. 3 of only 20 jr a teams in canada to be profitable. Not a good sign. Sticks and travel expenses are killing the teams.

The Mils were in the black last season as well.

[icebandit]

Jan 14, 2015 7:55:27 GMT -6 thegreat1 said:

I've heard that kindersley is over a year behind in ice fees to the city, La ronge and Humboldt are in real trouble as well. Nipawin was in real trouble for awhile back but their farmland fundraiser has really helped them.

Only three teams in Saskatchewan showed a profit last season from what I've heard. Estevan, Yorktown and Melfort. 3 of only 20 jr a teams in canada to be profitable. Not a good sign. Sticks and travel expenses are killing the teams.

My son play JR. A in Ontario and the team doesn't supply sticks. He broke three sticks in the last week and a half. It is hurting my pocketbook big time, I can only imagine the budget for sticks some of these teams must have, huge expense. IS pay to play next?

[clansman2112]

Actually, if I remember correctly, Yorkton lost about $35,000 last year. All of the expenses of the Western Canada Cup and the RBC ate into any profit made during the season. It's really sad that one has to lose money to win a Championship.

[weyburn12]

Jan 14, 2015 17:49:25 GMT -6 clansman2112 said:

Actually, if I remember correctly, Yorkton lost about $35,000 last year. All of the expenses of the Western Canada Cup and the RBC ate into any profit made during the season. It's really sad that one has to lose money to win a Championship.

Wow. Here I thought Hockey Canada covered everything for those big tournaments. When our female midget AAA Gold Wings went to the Esso Cup I believe everything was covered by HC. I heard they didn't have to pay a dime. Maybe I'm wrong though. Must be different depending on the level of hockey.

[pureel]

Yes I heard on the radio today the Wings are in tough they are in debt about 125 Grand according to the report I heard on Yorkton Radio today. As for the Terriers the expenses to go to the RBC were covered by Hockey Canada and the expenses to go to the Western Championship were covered by the host team. The reason they lost money or at least the reason given at the AGM was extra money spent on billets because the season lasted until mid May and also more sticks and supplies for the team needed because the season carried on and the big one was the lottery although it did make money it was no where near a sell out. I think they were done over 500 tickets from the year before. I guess it cost money to win a championship but like it was mentioned at the AGM we would lose money every year if it meant wining a championship. Maybe that is why the Mil's have made money they have never won a championship. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge

[Deleted]

The SJHL is messed plain and simple. You can't win and make money now a days it's impossible. I don't know why the reason for the Western Canada Cup I'm befuddled why our league would accept to play in that. So much revenue is lost with an extra 3-4 home games that were a possibility... 50/50's, beer and butts in the seats are all money for teams in the playoffs but this dumb tournament eliminates that. Also why don't we market this league better it's hard to support a league with marketing like we do. I can't see finiacial situations improving anytime soon. Tickets cost to much which average joe would pay 14 dollars to watch a meaningless hockey game. Playoffs is what matters to most and unfortantly it's hurting the league. The fans are definitely there I find it funny how some teams get 400 fans per regular season game but over 1500 for a playoff game... Plain and simple the fans are there and maybe when the need to show up.... Like now they will. Common fans support your franchise

[swkot]

It is a sad state of affairs when a team can achieve the ultimate level of success and end up losing money. Added bullet costs, supplies, extra ice time and now the WCC has eliminated the offsetting income by doing away with the anavet cup.

And the there is the WCC itself, which teams are shying away from because it has great potential for financial hardship. I'm guessing Estevan was the only team to keep their bid in for 2016 because of corporate backing, and hopefully the price of oil doesn't become a factor there. But maybe the SJHL will start to get the hint when none of the teams are interested in hosting.

[Deleted]

I was quiet sure the teams were not paying the extra cost of travel and accomadations. Seems pretty low for a league to skim the gate and not pay the bills.

Loosing money is understandable. You have a $600,000 budget and hope to cover lets say $300,000 from tickets and game day income. ( These are just numbers) The other half is budgeted to be covered by fundraisers. The budget goes to the end of the season. Then you still have full game day expenses and only 1/2 the income to cover that because no body budgets a fundraisers to cover playoff expenses. The fundraisers are expected to make ends meat on March 1st. Then no one is optomistic enough to budget a $40,000 profit. If you did budget a profit, you wouldn't loose money after winning the Cup. But if you did budget a profit you would have 10 volunteers step back from the event that makes the $40,000. Kind of a no win situation. Why work hard for a club if they expect to clear more money than the average working person in your town.

[icebandit]

As I posted earlier pay to play is coming. A couple of thousand dollars per player, 40,000 or 50,000 extra per team and the league survives. Teams in the east have gone to that model and the BCHL which is bleeding red ink like crazy has already discussed it. It was voted down for this season, but its coming. I think charging a kid 2000 a year is reasonable and wont be to much of a deterrent for kids who want to play. I know some teams in the NOJHL charge a playing fee of 4000, plus 500 a month billeting fees.....crazy money but parents and players are willing to pay.

[hockeyfan1973]

From my own personal experience, I would have to say that no sjhl team has a budget for the amount of money they need to fundraise for their team (there is a minimum amount needed but I don't think anyone has ever hit a maximum and had to stop because they were going to make too much money)It is an absolute fight all year long to raise any dollar that you can just so that maybe you can turn a small profit. It's getting harder and harder for fundraisers to even turn a profit. Teams continually go back to the same businesses over and over again looking for money, support, donations etc and with economy taking a turn for the worse it's only going to get harder. Combine that with less fans in the stands, smaller 50/50's etc, its a nightmare to keep these teams going.

[bomber2491]

I'm sorry but if Flin Flon can come back from the depths of debt like they have in the last 10 years, any team should be able to as well. This team was all but buried financially but the team was able to turn it around with a lot of hard work all the while their budget increasing year after year to the tune of about 600k. I believe Weyburn can do it too.

[weyburn12]

Looks like the Wings are upwards $200,000 in debt so far this season and its not looking good at all. This ended up reaching national headlines today after team president Larry Tribiger was on-air on all of Weyburn's radio stations and discoverweyburn.com (the site co-owned by the 3 stations) trying to get all the rumours straight.

Here's a few links I found today:

Discover Weyburn
This Could Be The Last Season: Red Wings President (includes full length audio of the interview at the end of the story if you're not a mobile user)
www.discoverweyburn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28727&Itemid=330
Social Media Reacts To Red Wings Situation (I think this story is meant for tomorrow)
www.discoverweyburn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28737&Itemid=330

CBC
Weyburn Red Wings Could Fold Because of Financial Troubles
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/weyburn-red-wings-could-fold-because-of-financial-troubles-1.2906831

Global
Weyburn Red Wings Facing Financial Crisis
globalnews.ca/news/1775322/weyburn-red-wings-facing-financial-crisis/

How the **** can a community let this happen to their team. I mean, I understand the lack of sponsorships. It happens. The oil boom is dying in the area so they can't be expecting to profit 100k a year like they have done in the past. But the fact that the Wings used to be in the top 3 for attendance in the league and now probably have worse crowds than Notre Dame some nights is just pitiful.

Thankfully today, with all the drama on the radio and social media, a lot of people seem to be showing support using the hashtag #savethewings on facebook and twitter.

Hoping for a large turnout of fans for tomorrow night's game, and a good crowd for the Sportsman Dinner Saturday night (which I heard isn't even halfway sold yet).

[mrbodangles]

Jan 15, 2015 18:20:05 GMT -6 hockeyfan1973 said:

From my own personal experience, I would have to say that no sjhl team has a budget for the amount of money they need to fundraise for their team (there is a minimum amount needed but I don't think anyone has ever hit a maximum and had to stop because they were going to make too much money)It is an absolute fight all year long to raise any dollar that you can just so that maybe you can turn a small profit. It's getting harder and harder for fundraisers to even turn a profit. Teams continually go back to the same businesses over and over again looking for money, support, donations etc and with economy taking a turn for the worse it's only going to get harder. Combine that with less fans in the stands, smaller 50/50's etc, its a nightmare to keep these teams going.

perhaps its time to rethink the league format / schedule etc ? costs are overwhelming
with less fan support.i don't have answers but hopefully someone does

[Deleted]

I think the 3 divisions was partially to help with travel but the playoff format ate up any savings last year for most teams. In Sept when I realized the Hawks and Mustangs played each other 8 times I thought I would get pretty bored of that but the clubs have worked hard at making the games fun and fueled the rival a bit. Its almost hard to tell whose rink you are in, it has been good for both clubs financially I think.
Nipawin was in over their head not too long ago and they are Ok financially now for the most part. Teams need to be creative. One thing I dislike is the social welfare mentallity. Teams keep asking for money from the outside to pay the bills but rarely do teams invest in themselves. Example - If a guaranteed 50/50 will make money - just do it wether you have a sponsor or not - invest your own money to make money - every private business does that, why can't a hockey team. I think when sponsors see teams investing in themselves and giving back to the community the businesses will support but when the hand is always out to take, people get tired of that.

Good on Humb for sharing the gate with minor hockey this week.

[flinflon123]

I have the answer. The answer you say, yes the answer. The league needs to have a yearly lottery. Similar to what we know as the Lotto Max, we need to have the Sport Max. You can take all the junior clubs in Saskatchewan, and all of the Midget Clubs, and split that money up. If it were set up like a regular lotto, with the profits going towards these individual clubs, there is a high potential for this to be a great boost for the teams every year.

For the sake of argument, lets use a $5 Million progressive. So sask hockey (SHA) would team up with sask lotteries and introduce the new lottery system, (available in Sask)

This gets bigger and bigger every week until someone wins. All the teams have to do is promote promote promote. Get some hype around it, tell everyone.

I have no idea what the profit break down would be, but I'm assuming it would be somewhere in the ball park of 100k yearly for the teams if this was successful. I see no reason why this couldn't be successful.

I also considered having just a league wide lottery, but I feel that the brass in charge are not capable of having a responsibility like this yet. It may be possible to do an SHA fundraiser, allocating money between JR. A and Midget, with additional funds for SHA minor tournaments......

The point in all of this, is that as a province, we must pull together. I don't think for a second that Weyburn is alone in this. Hockey is expensive. We need to find ways to cut costs at all levels, we need to pull together on fundraisers, and we need to keep Saskatchewan the hot bed of hockey.

[rm2188]

Pay to play will kill this league. Don't compare the sjhl to the nojhl this league is a top league the nojhl is awful. If they need momey take a page out of the nahl and ushl playbook and hold giant "tryout" fundraisers send invites through the province and your neighbouring states to the south hold multiple weekends with 6-10 20man teams at $200-400 per kid then bring 60 kids to a $400 "main camp" this is how American teams stay afloat why don't sj teams do this. There are always players looking to tryout... always

[icebandit]

If the Sj were to be the only pay to play league in the west I agree, but The BCHL bleeds far more red ink than the SJ and it is on the agenda. It is my understanding that Surrey already charges a 1000 fee(equipment fee?) and players billets are not paid by the team. They recruited almost all local kids so there would be no need for billeting.....It is inevitable that BCHL goes to more pay to play or players pay for sticks, pay billeting fees etc. It is not just the NOJHL, the OJHL and the CCHL are also pay to play. Not sure about the SIJHL. PArents spend 10 of thousands of dollars to get their kid to A jr. A level, they are not going to shy away from a 2000/yr charge to play junior once they get there.

[swkot]

Jan 16, 2015 8:42:07 GMT -6 flinflon123 said:

I have the answer. The answer you say, yes the answer. The league needs to have a yearly lottery. Similar to what we know as the Lotto Max, we need to have the Sport Max. You can take all the junior clubs in Saskatchewan, and all of the Midget Clubs, and split that money up. If it were set up like a regular lotto, with the profits going towards these individual clubs, there is a high potential for this to be a great boost for the teams every year.

A collective fundraiser may work. Teams are starting to no longer find their individual fundraisers viable. It used to work out well for the Mils, but they've scrapped their once successful harvest lotto. Seems like everyone started going with the same idea, and then once the government no longer allowed people from out of province to purchase over the phone the support was no longer enough to keep the lotto alive.

[icebandit]

Jan 16, 2015 16:00:19 GMT -6 swkot said:

Jan 16, 2015 8:42:07 GMT -6 flinflon123 said:

I have the answer. The answer you say, yes the answer. The league needs to have a yearly lottery. Similar to what we know as the Lotto Max, we need to have the Sport Max. You can take all the junior clubs in Saskatchewan, and all of the Midget Clubs, and split that money up. If it were set up like a regular lotto, with the profits going towards these individual clubs, there is a high potential for this to be a great boost for the teams every year.

A collective fundraiser may work. Teams are starting to no longer find their individual fundraisers viable. It used to work out well for the Mils, but they've scrapped their once successful harvest lotto. Seems like everyone started going with the same idea, and then once the government no longer allowed people from out of province to purchase over the phone the support was no longer enough to keep the lotto alive.

I live out of the province and bought Mils lotto tickets religiously.....what a stupid idea by the gov. to ban out of province purchases by phone..stupid, stupid, stupid.....

[weyburn12]

Scaring the hell out of the community seemed to work. 1,068 paid attendance last night plus they let in all minor hockey teams for free. So there was probably around 1,300 fans in the building. Total pot of the 50/50 was over $6,000, too. Felt like old times. Lets keep it up.

[thegreat1]

stolar9595 - 200-300K seems extremely low. I've been told its more like 700-800k. I've been told, Humboldt spends close too 100k a year on travel alone. Just for regular season billeting your looking at close to 45 grand if your team pays 300$ a month. Add a couple coaches onto that and your already over 100 grand. Then factor in equipment, icetime, travel etc.

[weyburn12]

Jan 17, 2015 14:02:53 GMT -6 thegreat1 said:

stolar9595 - 200-300K seems extremely low. I've been told its more like 700-800k. I've been told, Humboldt spends close too 100k a year on travel alone. Just for regular season billeting your looking at close to 45 grand if your team pays 300$ a month. Add a couple coaches onto that and your already over 100 grand. Then factor in equipment, icetime, travel etc.

Yeah your numbers are more realistic. The Wings claimed it costs them around $800k to keep the team on the ice every year. Pretty crazy stuff.

[ipeecoy]

Jan 17, 2015 12:31:21 GMT -6 Stormfront9595 said:

Weyburn will be fine. If the mils can pull it off anyone can. Maybe lebret was an exception. Im not sure presently but i can remember my whole child hood the mils being years and years behind in ice fees. What i have heard from a member of the mils organization itself is that all teams arent the same but it costs anywhere from 200k to 300k to play a season. Thats around the price value of the harvest lotto max prize. Problem they were having there was max prize was say ur choice of either a $300k combine or a 200 and some thousand payout. Obviously they want people to take the money right. Do what alot of communities are doing in making the team public and jack the taxes with a "what u gonna do about it, if u dont like it move" type of mentality. Wings will be fine.

And If I remember correctly, the City of Melville wrote off more than 1/2 of the ice fees, (could have been 2/3), leaving the city tax payers on the hock for an already subsidised rental fees. And how can teams expect that towns having new or renovated arenas expect to get rental rates that were the same in the old rinks.

The large prizes of the hospital and stars lotteries have killed the smaller local lotteries that was used to support varies teams and groups.

Somehow teams have to find new ways of funding.

[Deleted]

I found this a couple a while ago on the BCHL Forum. It is from 2003 same teams but way different attendence figures. Why aren't fans coming to games like they use to???



We are now halfway through the regular season; So for those who find such things interesting, (and those who don't), an update on the respective attendance numbers for all Junior "A" teams in the four western Canadian leagues. (Data from respective leagues web sites).

BCHL: 306,693, 274 games, 1,119 per game
AJHL: 185,686, 263 games, 706 per game
SJHL: 149,805, 184 games, 814 per game
MJHL: 94,640, 186 games, 509 per game

Total: 736,824, 907 games, 812 per game

Where does your favorite team place, (ave/game):

1 Grand Prairie AJHL 2,340
2 Nanaimo BCHL 2,238
3 Vernon BCHL 1,975
4 Alberni Valley BCHL 1,708
5 Chilliwack BCHL 1,464
6 Salmon Arm BCHL 1,424
7 Flin Flon SJHL 1,362
8 Ft. McMurray AJHL 1,349
9 Yorkton SJHL 1,194
10 Cowichan Valley BCHL 1,182
11 Prince George BCHL 1,083
12 Surrey BCHL 1,057
13 Coquitlam BCHL 1,015
14 Melfort SJHL 1,013
15 Drumheller AJHL 993
16 Battleford's SJHL 984
17 Williams Lake BCHL 955
18 Humboldt SJHL 908
19 OCN MJHL 855
20 Victoria BCHL 812
21 Trail BCHL 774
22 Estevan SJHL 763
23 Winkler MJHL 730
24 Kindersley SJHL 728
25 Weyburn SJHL 723
26 Quesnel BCHL 698
27 Lloydminister AJHL 687
28 Camrose AJHL 683
29 Drayton Valley AJHL 677
30 Melville SJHL 667
31 Powell River BCHL 658
32 Portage MJHL 656
33 Swan River MJHL 650
34 Nipawin SJHL 641
35 La Ronge SJHL 629
36 Langley BCHL 592
37 Penticton BCHL 584
38 Selkirk MJHL 556
39 Brooks AJHL 552
40 Bonnyville AJHL 548
41 Olds AJHL 528
42 Ft. Sask. AJHL 475
43 Merritt BCHL 466
44 Crowsnest Pass AJHL 462
45 Dauphin MJHL 453
46 Neepawa MJHL 448
47 Canmore AJHL 447
48 St. Albert AJHL 403
49 Southeast MJHL 400
50 Calgary Canucks AJHL 385
51 Waywayseecappo MJHL 360
52 Sherwood Park AJHL 330
53 Calgary Royals AJHL 263
54 Winnipeg Saints MJHL 220
55 Notre Dame SJHL 204
56 Winnipeg South MJHL 191

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BehindTheBacks
(Login BehindTheBacks)
64.180.49.192
Re: Attendance update December 10 2003, 4:56 PM

Good for Prince George at #11. I think to average over 1,000 fans per game for a team that's struggling in the standings and has to share a fairly limited fan base with a WHL team is pretty impressive.

As has been said on this board many times before, good hockey [/quote]

[Deleted]

Get a 10 yr loan and pay back $18,000 a year plus tax. Many teams should be able to absorb that. But have we asked what the Wings do for fund raisers each year - I understand just main one event. Volunteers could maybe come up with another idea.
And the coach shaving off $40,000 in spending this yr. Maybe that could have been done over the last 5 yrs and you don't have a debt in 2014.
I know the coach likely isn't letting the bus idle during the games and they need to use old tape to make knobs , but if that is what it takes, then they should do it.

[thegreat1]

How hard is it going to be for Coach/gm to recruit and get kids to commit now that the teams announced they may not be around next season. I could see the board asking for more support because times were tough, but to come right and and say this year could be our last...... I'm just looking at it as a parent, would I agree with my kid to comitt there and they fold? Somthing to think about ..

[lewis94]

Jan 22, 2015 13:18:14 GMT -6 thegreat1 said:

How hard is it going to be for Coach/gm to recruit and get kids to commit now that the teams announced they may not be around next season. I could see the board asking for more support because times were tough, but to come right and and say this year could be our last...... I'm just looking at it as a parent, would I agree with my kid to comitt there and they fold? Somthing to think about ..

That was a big concern Bill Chow expressed when I talked to him a few days ago. What he said is Larry Tribiger was asked whether there was a POSSIBILITY they couldn't ice a team next year, and he said yes... then it took on a life of its own.

Things are certainly looking better now than they did last week, due to the sportsman's dinner and big crowds. Good to see.