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Post by left4deadinflfl on Oct 12, 2015 8:42:26 GMT -6
I am not sure if you can equate butts in the seats to Reagan as coach. I agree that mike should move on....but not for the same reasons as some others have posted. And I really doubt if mike will have trouble finding another coaching job. I have not been to a game this year...probably won't go either, but again it's not because of mikes coaching. I remember some of the previous coaches before Reagan showed up.....1000 fans watching that kinda crap....7 straight years of 20 or less wins per season. Players not reporting, team in horrible debt....no playoffs.....the good ole days as some would say. Careful what ya'll wish for. L4D
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Post by snipe44 on Oct 12, 2015 23:40:19 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I'm not a Board member. Season tickets were $200 back then. Pretty sure Reagan doesn't set the prices. Easy to make playoffs? Walkington, Hoffman and Stokes had 1 appearance between them in 5 years. Game tickets are not numbered anymore either. Maybe people can't afford it anymore. Did you ever think of that? Gee I wonder why many people can't afford it anymore. $700 for a couple season tickets. Pretty unrealistic, to most non board members anyways....
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 13, 2015 8:24:03 GMT -6
That is what pisses me off about this town, $700 for 30 games or so of hockey, for two people. That would be about $12 bucks each. That is too expensive? Now i'll admit not everyone can afford that, but they show up at the gate when they can. Most people in this town can afford that, and choose to look at the "oh $350 for a season ticket, or $215 for a flex pack, that's ridiculous"
No it's not. Some people put that into their quads every month, same entertainment. The Bomber board doesn't cry to you when the bus breaks down, and fuel jumps $0.20/L overnight on a road trip..... That $350 supports the team, the board doesn't get paid.....
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Post by snipe44 on Oct 13, 2015 22:07:17 GMT -6
The point was that the Bombers have the highest prices in the league. Between 100 and 200 dollars higher for a pair of tickets compared to most of the rest of the league A few years ago they numbered their tickets and chased a good amount of loyal fans away from the games. Sure, they've changed the numbered tickets back (mostly) but what did they do to draw the fans back? Pretty much nothing. This year's parents weekend was sad. Less than 1200 total fans for a couple weekend games. Just to clarify here, I do have a season ticket and I do come to the rink but it's because I'm a pretty big hockey fan and I don't have anything else I'd rather be doing, not because of anything the team has done to draw me in. Unfortunately many of the other fans who were put off by the numbered tickets found something else to spend their entertainment budget on and with no incentive to come back, they didn't. If you want to draw fans in while still charging top dollar you better have a winner. It's been a long time since 93.
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 14, 2015 7:42:15 GMT -6
$295 in Weyburn $300 in Melfort $275 in La Ronge $275 estevan $300 in Nipawin $350 in Flin Flon
So I see your point, but they do offer a family pack which I did not see the other teams offering, so its a wash as a far as a family of 4. The single sale tickets, which usually set the bar, are high. I don't think the money is there to do the extravagant game day features that would draw the people to the rink.
Tanya is running her but off all game and does a great job, that monster truck thing she does for the kids is great. For adults, I don't know what they could do to make the game more appealing, and give it that special ''i need to be there'' feeling.
For myself, I like theatrics and pyros before the game. You know, lights, fireworks, laser shows, loud pump up music, and so on..... Those are all stupid expensive. You look at the Montreal Canadians, the show that they have before every game gives me goosebumps. I've been to a lot of Rider games, and when they come out on the field, I get goose bumps. It never gets old either. It's loud, it's bright, and it gets people's blood pressure rising.
What can we do here in Flin Flon? I look at Weyburn, they darken the rink, have fans in their seats about 5 mins before puck drop doing the starting lineups, then they have a VERY modest light show. It's not over the top, its not all that loud, but it's the right direction anyways.
Putting butts in the seats aren't easy, finding your demographic and catering to them is even harder, especially in Flin Flon where two best friends like completely different styles of hockey and how its played...........and watched
There is no easy button, but I agree with you snipe
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 7:56:02 GMT -6
Nipawin offers a family pack but sell very few. They have sold more each year since they were"invented" so it may be catching on. 2 ideas I would like to see are 1- scrap season tickets all together and offer a 30 game flex pack that has tickets that expire. If I can't make it to game 2 then I make sure I bring a friend to game 1 using the second ticket. I could bring 29 friends to the home opener. It forces you to use the tickets early, bringing fringe fans to the game in Oct is better than Feb. 2 - Sherwood teams could offer fans this - When I buy my Hawks season pass I get tickets to the Hawks in LAr, Ff and Melf. Of course those other teams would offer the same., That might be too much for the entire Season ticket group but it could be an incentive for new buyers, getting a dozen free road trip tickets. It may help the local team sell tickets and I doubt any team budgets based on the visiting team's fans so it wouldn't be expected money lost, it would be extra money not realized. IMO the bottom line is more value for your money.
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Post by Beaverstreet on Oct 14, 2015 8:06:33 GMT -6
In my opinion de-valuing a ticket isn't the worst thing in the world. More butts means more 50/50's, popcorn, beer sales and so on.
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 14, 2015 8:20:24 GMT -6
Why hasn't the SJHL done a survey? There are 12 teams, 11 of which would need to have survey's sent out. What is going to bring you to the rink. 6 simple questions.
1. what would you pay to buy a season ticket? 2. How many season tickets would you buy? 3. Why haven't you bought a season ticket? Why have you? 4. What nights work best for you to attend hockey games? What TIMES also work? 5. What would you like to see at the rink? 6. What would make you most likely to buy a season ticket, and encourage your friends and family to as well?
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 14, 2015 8:23:00 GMT -6
Why hasn't the SJHL done a survey? There are 12 teams, 11 of which would need to have survey's sent out. What is going to bring you to the rink. 6 simple questions. 1. what would you pay to buy a season ticket? 2. How many season tickets would you buy? 3. Why haven't you bought a season ticket? Why have you? 4. What nights work best for you to attend hockey games? What TIMES also work? 5. What would you like to see at the rink? 6. What would make you most likely to buy a season ticket, and encourage your friends and family to as well? My answers: 1. $200 seems fair to me 2. I would buy two. 3. I bought a flex pack this year because I know I will miss a certain amount of games. 4. Weekends, some week nights, and 7:00pm, or sundays earlier in the afternoon. 5. More theatrics and pyrotechnics, take a rider game in for details. 6. It's hard to encourage people to come out as they feel it is to expensive and the value is not there.
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Post by Beaverstreet on Oct 14, 2015 9:42:04 GMT -6
I don't by a season ticket because if I miss two games in the year, it is not worth it. Gate ticket or flex-pack is the way to go.
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 14, 2015 11:24:04 GMT -6
I don't by a season ticket because if I miss two games in the year, it is not worth it. Gate ticket or flex-pack is the way to go. I completely hear you on that. I think in Flin Flon if you miss 4 games you would be better off to pay the gate. I bought the 15 game flex pack this year, and forgot to pick it up for the first two games due to travel, but I was able to make the game, so I'm already at a wash I guess. My buddy and I had a conversation on this a few months ago and we actually pulled the old calculators out and determined that if a club (Flin Flon's #'s here) sold 400 tickets @ 300/TICKET they would generate $120,000, sold 600 tickets @205/TICKET they would generate $123,000, plus an extra 200 people buying 50/50 and popcorn and beer..... sold 800 tickets @175/Ticket they would generate $140,000, same as above...... I guess it something to consider, I think a lot of people would reconsider purchasing tickets for even $225 for the season, that quite a bit more revenue, unless the same amount of people buy tickets!
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Post by ipeecoy on Oct 14, 2015 13:41:47 GMT -6
Is this all you guys think about is the beer sales?
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Post by Beaverstreet on Oct 14, 2015 14:30:07 GMT -6
Is this all you guys think about is the beer sales? Please tell me your joking or you actually saw where it says 50/50 and popcorn and beer
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Post by hockeyfan50 on Oct 14, 2015 15:26:52 GMT -6
Think of it this way. Years ago 1000 season tickets at $200--$200000. I bet they did not sell 200 season tickets this year. But we will give it to them. 200 tickets at $350--$70000. What looks better? All you need is something more than "GET YOUR BOMBER SEASON TICKETS". Some PR work. Get rid of dated tickets. You don't need pyro. Maybe different music. Maybe a few lights, other than what are on top of the score clock now. Maybe offer a few gate prizes. Make it a good family outing. A coupon for a free popcorn just does not cut it. It is sad to see a tradition like " The Whitney", go down the tubes. The product on the ice just is not enough.
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Post by stangmang on Oct 14, 2015 15:44:16 GMT -6
I think it's tough everywhere. Harder and harder for families to get season tickets if they have kids in hockey playing 4 nights a week too. I do think the various presentation things the Mustangs have done the last few years (light shows and smoke) have helped add to the excitement goin into a game, it's worth looking into.
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Post by Beaverstreet on Oct 14, 2015 15:52:51 GMT -6
No, the enrollment into minor hockey is lower, it isn't harder and harder for families to get to the rink with kids in hockey, it's exactly the same or easier I bet. It just plain old costs a lot to bring a family to a game, 15+15+10+10 for a family of 4. $50 bucks a game minimum without buying anything else at all.
weekend game price (I don't bring mine to weekday games, the kids need their sleep) $50 gate $5 or $10 for 50/50 if your into that 2 x $3 popcorn for the kids 2 or 3 x $5 for beers.
Possibility of $66 per if your conservative with the refreshments.
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Post by swkot on Oct 14, 2015 16:42:06 GMT -6
I'm not sure that it is as easy to bring fans in these days as simply dropping prices. It would have to be a work in progress, as flinflon123 alludes to if you drop prices substantially and the same number of fans by tickets then suddenly the team is in a very vulnerable position.
My thoughts are the foundation needs to be there, and that starts with the youth. Tickets for kids under 12 should be cheap, like dirt cheap (say $2 in the regular season). And for that matter each parent's game tickets allows one child under the age of 12 free of charge. And along with this the team needs to work in conjunction with minor hockey. Assign each player to a minor team, get them out helping at practices now and then, show up to the occasional game for a pep talk, whatever. The young minor hockey players are impressionable and interaction with the team will create a desire to watch them play. Cheap tickets make it less cost prohibitive for them to do so. The team won't capitalize off the kids, but it will help get their parents into the stands occasionally (and more importantly for playoffs) and should lead to an increased fan base that pays full price. It would be a slow process, but I think it would work.
The reason I feel this way is in my observation the youth viewership doesn't exist like it used to. The top sections in Melville's old stadium used to have fairly large groups of children. It was like a social gathering. Weekday games the numbers weren't always big but weekends and rivalry games sometimes brought in pretty significant numbers. You don't see that any more, ever. But when I do go to games, the people in my age demographic that I see there are all people that were at games regularly when I was younger. And the ex-locals that moved away after graduation that will try and make every playoff game.....same thing, they were regularly in the stands when they were young.
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Post by hockeygawd on Oct 14, 2015 18:52:03 GMT -6
I like what Melfort does for Kids. They give away tonnes of free tickets to the elementary schools, and to local minor hockey tournaments. Kids get in free as long as they have an adult to supervise. So, adult has to buy a ticket, in turn buys beer, 50-50 etc. Seems to work well around here. They don't do every game but lots of weekend games. You can tell when they do as there is packs of elementary age school kids running laps around the palace.
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Oct 14, 2015 21:53:52 GMT -6
why is the Whitney empty, why are service clubs folding, why are there so few curlers, why is minor hockey on a major decline, why is the unwinder empty most nites why did the prospector hotel close. it's not the bomber boards fault for raising ticket prices 8 years ago IMO L4D
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Post by hockeyfan50 on Oct 15, 2015 7:32:52 GMT -6
The reason is people are a little more thrifty. The reason that people are not buying tickets would be cost and dated tickets. Yes it is the board that is to blame. They got greedy and stupid.
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 15, 2015 7:46:33 GMT -6
why is the Whitney empty, why are service clubs folding, why are there so few curlers, why is minor hockey on a major decline, why is the unwinder empty most nites why did the prospector hotel close. it's not the bomber boards fault for raising ticket prices 8 years ago IMO L4D People got lazy? IMO they would rather watch a hockey game on a flat screen then at the rink, minor hockey aged kids always want to play hockey, but i've heard first hand parents making excuses "we haven't the time, or it's so expensive" or whatever, and these same parents go in and trade their 2 year old quad in for new ones and get a boat while they are there! That's a real situation. In the past the only source for entertainment was at the rink. The bars were full because people needed a place to socialize. Now facebook socializes for them, and they can drink at home and use the iphone to check in on all the daily scores. People got lazy man-and that is a fact.
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Oct 15, 2015 12:14:02 GMT -6
The board got "greedy and stupid" eight years ago, and fans don't care about Junior A hockey team any more....good one. Greedy...sure everyone knows the Bombers are always rolling in the black and they are stupid for trying to get out of debt. that is greedy and stupid alright. L4D
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Post by sjhldad on Oct 15, 2015 12:31:52 GMT -6
Society is always evolving and that is the very applicable to the entertainment industry. With the internet and all of the entertainment available on-line, it has made it more economical and convenient to stay home with more options. what does this mean for Junior hockey? A tougher sell and leaner budgets. It has happened in Ontario and it will occur here that the Junior "A" player will eventually have to pay to play. The teams will be mandated by their leagues an equal and above board fee, for each player similar to minor hockey today. The major junior teams are in crisis as well. The entertainment dollar is out there but there are just so many more choices. In my opinion, nothing can replace a live action hockey game or other sporting event. People are willing to spend top dollar at games if the value is there and that includes entertainment. If Junior A hockey teams provide a unique experience, entertaining hockey, than it will continue to survive, however, costs keep going up and eventually players(parents) will be paying a fee.
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Post by hockeyfan50 on Oct 15, 2015 16:39:38 GMT -6
Yes L4D greedy. The reason they were in debt was because the board went over for the RBC. Then the crap years as you put it. But there was a few good players that came out of the crap years. Along comes Mr. Reagan. Ill agree that he did some good things for the team. But what they did was start raising season ticket prices. $200, then $225, then $275. Now start hovering around $300/$350. They raise 50/50 cost. Charge to watch maroon/white game. Raise gate price. About now is where the stupidity starts. There season tickets start dropping. Around 800 which is not bad. but they don't put 2 and 2 together and figure the reason why. Instead they go to game day tickets and raise gate price. This is the big one. Even though people revolt and they lose half there season ticket holders they still do it. Yes it went down to 400 maybe. I knew people that got season ticket at 275 and never went to games. They gave tickets to family and friends. People bought to support the team. Then the smart board comes dates for last five games. All because people are giving tickets away at the door. Greed wanted that extra couple thousand from the door. Again I know people that will not buy because of that. You just don't bite the hands that feed you. Now you have 2015. Season ticket base of about 200 if that. Tell me that it was smart to do what they did. If you had a fan base of 1000 at $200 bucks. What team would not want %200000 revenue at the start of the year
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Oct 16, 2015 8:34:32 GMT -6
The reason the Bombers are in debt because they "went over for the RBC". I don't believe the Bombers went into debt on the RBC year, in fact they made a lot of money hosting RBC. I suppose it comes down to intent...if you feel the board is stupid and greedy for their moves to run a community based organization in a financially responsible manner, then they are guilty. I understand as you state $200,000 at the start of the year would be nice...but the board has a calculator and can crunch numbers as well as anyone. If it was as simple as reverting back too $200 season tickets I am sure it would be done. The board changes from year to year, they are all aware of the costs to run the team. I suppose I cant understand why folks would hold a grudge for the actions of a board from 8 years ago. This is not a profit organization, nobody gets paid on the board. Even with $200,000 to start the season, you still got about $550,000 to go for the annual operating budget and the shortfall has to be picked up by fund raising events and corporate sponsors. These are big boy numbers for a small town. I know the board members work their can off to ice this team...it must be very discouraging for them to hear this in the community..I don't know why they do it...I guess they are stupid and greedy, I suppose we need some smart and generous people on the board...people like you. L4D
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 16, 2015 12:00:20 GMT -6
I just want to clarify that I do not think the board is lazy or greedy. People in general are lazy.
There are no grudges, only suggestions. In the past they made some mistakes after 2001. I am sure every team did. Flin Flon will be fine crunching these big boy numbers, everything will add up, it will just require some overhaul.
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Post by left4deadinflfl on Oct 16, 2015 13:28:32 GMT -6
I like math...I am just not that good at it so maybe the statman can get his calculator and pencil out and verify my equation. Assume there are 1000 hockey fans who will fully support the team based on season ticket sales only. Based on a $750K budget that means each season ticket holder would have to pay $750 for a season ticket. We know that isn't going to happen. But a season ticket holder only pays about half of that and there are only about 200 season ticket holders so the Bomber Board holds a number of fundraisers and a 100 or so corporate sponsors make up the rest. Given 200 season tickets at $375 equals $75,000. Stick with me here...operating budget is $750,000 less $75,000 in season ticket sales leaves $675,000 to raise by sponsors and fundraisers. In short...the expectation then is for the 11 board members and businesses of Flin Flon to underwrite the $675,000 to operate the team....every year...to make a cheap Season Ticket possible. That sounds to me like the Bomber Board and local business is subsidizing ticket prizes by about 90%. So when you talk about the stupid and greedy Bomber Board, just remember, your ticket to the game by is subsidized by hard working volunteers and local business (90% of it anyway). Its just a different way of looking the situation..and if you look at it that way...the Bomber Board is certainly doing everything possible to keep the Bombers going. IMO L4D
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Post by flinflon123 on Oct 16, 2015 19:30:05 GMT -6
I don't find a flaw in your math.
However I disagree substantially with your assessment of subsidy. It is a sponsorship, related to advertising. The sponsorship dollars should never be assumed, but they should also advertise the heck out of every sponsor.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 23:11:13 GMT -6
It's a choice of wording. Advertising, sponsoring or handouts. Maybe a few out of town parents decide to go to the local DQ when playing hockey on the road because there is a sign on the rink wall, but how often do we decide where I 'm gonna buy a belt for the garden tractor based on a sing in a rink. It is who ever has it cheap the day I need it. I do think people try to support hockey sponsors but if you ask the sponsor / advertising I am sure most will say it is a hand out with a token of appreciation called advertising. ( so it can be used for a tax write off) Hockey teams are somewhat like welfare, always asking for someone else to cover the costs. Which SJ team actually investing in itself? All of those businesses that do subsidize hockey are people who have used their own money to invest in themselves and now they have more than they need to make ends meet so they give some away to hockey, soccer and dart clubs. I would challenge a team to start operating as if there wasn't any handouts available. I hear it all the time, this costs too much see if we can get a sponsor to cover it. If it is worth a sponsor investing in wouldn't it also be worth a team investing in?
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Post by snipe44 on Oct 16, 2015 23:15:54 GMT -6
I find a flaw in your math. You listed 200 season ticket holders at $375 would bring in $75000. When price seems to be a major factor in driving people away, what would be wrong with drawing in 400 season ticket holders at $200 a ticket? That would bring an extra 5 grand plus all the other 5050 and beer and other revenues that come with the extra bodies. I don't think 400 would be a stretch at that price and personally I think it would be a low estimate.
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